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Put Away your Chess Engine

  • #81
    Morphysrevenges wrote:

    To all the newbies out there, think for yourself. The answers to all chess questions are NOT found by the computer.

    Said someone rated way below Stockfish!

     

  • #82
    Idiots who worry for no reason about how other people enjoy their lives wrote
     

    Put away your chess engines. 

     

     

    No. Don't like using engines? Don't use them. Worry about how other people like to enjoy the game? Your problem. Waa. 

  • #83
  • #84

    Engines are very helpful, if used in moderation. Problem is, there are people who let computers think for them in the analysis, so they barely learn anything from it: they understand what computer's suggestions are, but they don't understand why, because they've invested too much time into learning how to imitate computers (which is never going to work, because computer and human "brains" work very differently) and too little how to actually play chess. On the opposite end of the spectrum, there are people who never ever interact with engines, thinking either it is below them, or just not knowing how to use engines advantageously and holding on to their old habits and ways of thinking.

     

    "Use, but don't overuse" is a good old rule, totally applicable here. wink.png

  • #85

    Most of the time when I analyze a game after it's over, I see moves that the computer says I should have made and they make absolutely no sense to me. Humans don't play like that, that's how you can tell when someone is using an engine in your game.

  • #86

    If some people dont understand why chess engines makes moves not everybody is just imitating the best moves, i have been playing stockfish everyday and i thouroughly understand every move it makes and its not hard to figure it out. Litteraly judt take the piece and see what happens when you make another move.

  • #87
    matiee wrote:

    If some people dont understand why chess engines makes moves not everybody is just imitating the best moves, i have been playing stockfish everyday and i thouroughly understand every move it makes and its not hard to figure it out. Litteraly judt take the piece and see what happens when you make another move.

    Bull crap!

  • #88

    Your gunna have to believe its, just like how you can find answers to a math test amd run it backwards to see why thats the answer to that question.

  • #89

    Yes this is one of the good reasons to use chess engine it can show you some stuff but its up to you to learn because then there would be no point in engines. Very good example of how positions and forth going can be made better. Also now that he knows this he doesnt have to reach that point in the game they are able to understand pawn strucutre right when the game starts.

  • #90

    Math has all the right answers to all the wrong questions.

    Knowing which questions to ask is what turns science into art.  Chess is no different.

    The way I use an engine is not the same as the way anyone else would use one. 

     

     

  • #91
    LouStule wrote:

    Most of the time when I analyze a game after it's over, I see moves that the computer says I should have made and they make absolutely no sense to me. Humans don't play like that, that's how you can tell when someone is using an engine in your game.

    Engines are programmed based on the general human positional evaluation: material count, open lines, peace activity, pawn structure, central control, etc... If there is a move a strong engine suggests that you don't understand at all and it looks nonsensical to you, then chances are your own understanding of chess needs a lot of improvement, rather than an engine being too inhumane. tongue.png

     

    Where engines really excel is in tactical calculations. There, indeed, there are situations in very complicated positions where an engine would find tactically the best move, which wouldn't even appear in a human mind. Some awkward knight retreat to the corner, which happens to be the only way to avoid a skewer after a complicated 7-move line full of hanging pieces and sacrifices...

     

    But even in such cases, as matiee suggested, you can figure out the idea behind the move by just following the computer lines and see where they lead.

  • #92
    MayCaesar wrote:
    LouStule wrote:

    Most of the time when I analyze a game after it's over, I see moves that the computer says I should have made and they make absolutely no sense to me. Humans don't play like that, that's how you can tell when someone is using an engine in your game.

    Engines are programmed based on the general human positional evaluation: material count, open lines, peace activity, pawn structure, central control, etc... If there is a move a strong engine suggests that you don't understand at all and it looks nonsensical to you, then chances are your own understanding of chess needs a lot of improvement, rather than an engine being too inhumane.

     

    Where engines really excel is in tactical calculations. There, indeed, there are situations in very complicated positions where an engine would find tactically the best move, which wouldn't even appear in a human mind. Some awkward knight retreat to the corner, which happens to be the only way to avoid a skewer after a complicated 7-move line full of hanging pieces and sacrifices...

     

    But even in such cases, as matiee suggested, you can figure out the idea behind the move by just following the computer lines and see where they lead.

    An englne with a tablebase is literally unbeatable.  A human could memorize the endgame from X pieces down to the two kings but how useful would this be?  We had Basic Chess Endings, ECE, and many solved endgames already, yet people still make basic mistakes, and we can always speed up the time controls, which is the logical solution.  One reason I train at one-minute otherthan to avoid cheaters is that as FIDE speeds up, I can just slow down to whatever they are at once I reach my peak.

     

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