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What distinguishes IMs and GMs?

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rothbard959

It wasn't a good idea to use Carlsen's name to explain some truth. My mistake. I take back the name. And I'm not in a position to tell who could/should be at the top of the chess world. But still I support my claim about IM's and GM's playing power can't be comparable by current conditions.

NimzoRoy

According to something I read many many moons ago (source?) IMs tend to have full-time jobs or careers away from the chessboard and are, by and large, not full-time chess professionals. Some GMs also have other "jobs" or careers for instance Vidmar and Botvinnik were electrical engineers, and  Tarrasach was a medical doctor but by and large GMs more often tend to be full-time chess professionals with fewer "distractions" to keep them from reaching their full potential.

See IM Silman's remarks about Deep Thinking and the Differences Between Titled Players for more details by someone who probably has a little more expertise on this subject than most of us

http://www.chess.com/article/view/deep-thinking-and-the-differences-between-titled-players

Maradonna

NimzoRoy.

Good post, thanks for the link.

eddysallin
Maradonna wrote:

I thnk what Miriska is saying is total mince and there seems to be a large degree of attention seeking which I won't feed into.

But the idea of there being Ims that are better than GMs is interesting.

I know that Nezmetdinov was considered an amazing tactition and some argued better than Tal. Luckily the two have played games against each other. Here is one where Super Nez gets the better of Tal who he had a life time plus score against. See 3.4 on his wiki page: link below.

http://tinyurl.com/b8os8pb

Plenty more in the database if you look.

http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1102217

"His games reveal the beauty of chess and make you love in chess not so much the points and high placings, but the wonderful harmony and elegance of this particular world." Mikhail Tal

Sure there and have been outstanding I.M.s ....here we are talking about 24/2500 vs, 27/2800 and that is another level of chess.

sisu

Let's make it happen!

rothbard959

@sisu: Salov quit, because he wanted to play real chess as Fischer wanted also. The story about Salov's quit is long and doesn't fit to this thread. English version of this story almost removed from the net, you can find it in Russian language.

konhidras

Im going to make a wild guess...hmmm... was it IM Pfren who defeated Carlsen?

TheOldReb
miriskra wrote:

OTB titles are all depend on entering tournaments over and over. GM's are stronger than all IM's is a false conception. I know some IM's even Carlsen can't win a single game. Don't ask me who are these IM's? But if you have spent enough time on this area, you'll verify my claim.

 

Komodo_Dragaon

I thought he went crazy............

There is no right answer as to why a GM is better than a IM, it could be done to talent, work ethic or even something like bad nerves.

TheGreatOogieBoogie

I think the differences might be due to many reasons, such as some IMs are (relatively speaking of course) poor with time management (and by "poor" I mean maybe expert or FM level at time management, so their so-called "poor" time management is still better than yours or mine), endgames, converting hard to win won positions, and other knowledge gaps that if fixed will help them make GM.  

Also, GMs probably chunk far more information.  That is, they remember far more positions (not necessarily exact positions but their individual units such as weak color complex, more active minor piece, etc.) and this is on top of their understanding. 

Scottrf
[COMMENT DELETED]
TheOldReb

GM Kevin Spraggett once told me that there are many IMs that are GM strength but simply dont put in the work necessary ( for various reasons )  to get the GM title . The late IM Boris Kogan was one IM he mentioned by name that was GM strength but never got the title and I knew Kogan well and played him many times .... 

C-nack
miriskra wrote:

Why these angry replies? I can understand your love to Carlsen. Maybe, I shouldn't put his name on my reply. Remove the name and read again. Also this topic can't be understood without chess politics knowledge. The following question is a good start: Why Valery Salov quit?

I know some people here can understand what I say about the true value of OTB or CC titles. If we are talking about CC titles, we're talking about centaurs, cloud computing power and money. You won't get a CC GM title without a good supercomputer or cloud computing. If we're talking about OTB titles, we should focus on tourney organizers and some match selling frauds. Should I continue?

What about Salov? He was a Grandmaster.

theunsjb

[COMMENT DELETED] - NimzoRoy already posted the link Embarassed

SocialPanda

mhchess13 there are IMs with more than 2400 elo.

About why some strong IMs never become GMs, you have to remember that in some countries there are no big tournaments, so you can´t get the norms that you need. And if you are poor, you are not going to travel to play to another country.

Markle
socialista wrote:

mhchess13 there are IMs with more than 2400 elo.

About why some strong IMs never become GMs, you have to remember that in some countries there are no big tournaments, so you can´t get the norms that you need. And if you are poor, you are not going to travel to play to another country.

You are correct money has a lot to do with it if you can't afford to play in the big tournaments that offer norms you may be as strong as an IM or GM but it will be very hard for you to get the title

revengeofthepawns

What miri is saying is true, except the part about carlsen.  I play primarily on lichess now and there are many IMs with plus bullet and some plus blitz scores on there against GMs.  You can check for yourself, IM opperwezen has a plus score against many GMs in the lichess titled tournaments.  Just being a gm doesnt necessarily mean the player will be better than the IM.