who do you think was the best chess player of all time?

  • #81

    Why is having worse preparation an achievement?

    It may mean you're more talented, but that's not really the discussion.

  • #82
    Savage wrote:
    fabelhaft wrote:

    What Fischer did in 1972 wasn't unprecedented in itself.

    That's funny, because I tried googling the other guy who beat the Soviets singlehandedly and couldn't find him.

    If Fischer's beating Spassky in 1972 is what makes Fischer the greatest player ever by default it's obvious that for example Lasker or Kasparov never could be as great as Fischer regardless how many decades they played or what results they scored.

  • #83

    I think Morphy,Fisher,Capablanca, and Kasparov

  • #84

    What a lot of people who criticize Fischer for having demands don't bring up, and it's fact, that Fischer's antics for asking for more and more raised the prize funds for chess matches and events worldwide. Every leading player who won a nice prize after is indebted to Fischer, and many have acknowledged it. So what if he didn't defend his title every year as promised. He tried to get more in 1975 and was blocked by Soviet controlled FIDE to wrest the title back from him. And as stated, Fischer played a better class of players than Kasparov did. The 1946-72 era of players is superior to what we have seen since, That's my opinion and a whole new argument. I am not a Fischer fan boy as some have labeled his followers. He was definitely different in so many ways...But I don't judge players by who they are, but instead how they play, and no one dominated like Fischer did.

     

    Anyway, it's kind of like the argument for who the greatest basketball player is. The NBA and media popularized Michael Jordan as such, and he wasn't. (It was a marketing strategy, and Michael fit the bill). It was Wilt Chamberlain. Wilt dominated the court on both ends, something Michael could only do on the offensive side. Few here have seen Wilt play. In 20 years, Michael will be forgotten and opinion will switch to LeBron James as the GOAT. Anyway, the Wilt argument doesn't belong here, I've proven it elsewhere. Message me if you want to see it.

  • #85

    Is Fischer the Michael Jordan?

    It's a poor analogy, but the hype seems more applicable to Fischer.

  • #86
    Scottrf wrote:

    Is Fischer the Michael Jordan?

     

    It's a poor analogy, but the hype seems more applicable to Fischer.

    No, I'm saying people pick Kasparov because he's fresh in their minds, like Michael Jordan is to basketball fans. Kasparov is the Michael Jordan of chess. And neither of these two is the greatest of all time at their game. There was a more dominating predecessor for both of them....

  • #87

    Bobby Fischer is the greatest chess player who ever was or ever will be! He stood up to the Soviet Machine and beat them single handedly even though the Soviets trained their players in a school under the tutelage of world champions Bobby Fischer beat them. Then Bobby Fischer took on the American Machine and showed the world US government, Japan and Israel are modern day Nazis.

  • #88

    Bobby has gotten the last laugh in all of this. He will forever be in the discussion of who was the greatest player of all time. Although Kasparov has support today, one day, this will wane as new great players emerge. (See my Wilt Chamberlain, Michael Jordan, LeBron James progression above). It is not unthinkable to state one day a player will surpass Fischer, but it hasn't happened yet!

  • #89
    aww-rats wrote:
    JMB2010 wrote:
    aww-rats wrote:

     Kasparov barely beat Karpov. Fischer rolled his way to the top, his margin of victories in 1970-72 will never be matched.

    Did Fischer play Karpov? No.

    Did Karpov play the people Fischer did while they were in their prime? Mostly no. Chess

     


    at the top slipped a lot after the generation Fischer played grew older. Sorry but Karpov and Kasparov aren't close to even top 5 all time.

    In Fischer's defense I will note that Karpov tried the Fischer Defense against Spassky and still lost:

     

     
    Though I was disappointed with how crushing black was winning through much of the game it was the Fischer Defense after all.   
  • #90

    Don't get me wrong, Kasparov will also remain in the argument, it's just that his support will wane. Even Morphy is still getting votes! Note that Magnus is getting support now, as will other new sensations we have yet to see. But Bobby will always be in the argument,

  • #91
    aww-rats wrote:

    Fischer played a better class of players than Kasparov did.

    Spassky was stronger than Karpov? Kasparov played the strongest opposition available for twenty years after winning the title. He played 144 match games just against Karpov. Also the tournaments Kasparov won were vastly stronger than the events Fischer played.

  • #92

    Karpov won the most tournaments, enough said. We all know the world championship is a joke and even early grandmaster acknowledged this.

  • #93

    Bobby would probably be rolling in his grave if the day he was left out of the argument ever comes.

  • #94

    Kaparov, Kasparov, Kasparov! He be THE BEST! (Y)

  • #95
    Intrinsicbarbaro wrote:

    Karpov won the most tournaments, enough said. We all know the world championship is a joke and even early grandmaster acknowledged this.

    "We"?? You have your reasons for stating that... but ...no. Fischer single handedly bringing down the Soviet Chess Machine..... winning the World Championship... was not a "joke" (meaning >> its worthless, it means nothing, etc etc).

    If the WCC is a joke... then ANY WC.. in anything... is a joke.

    (I wonder how Usain Bolt would take that statement?)

  • #96

    kasparov

  • #97

    Different circumstances. I think a tennis-like approach would be better for chess. Simply have a number 1 each year.

    clms_chess wrote:

    Intrinsicbarbaro wrote:

    Karpov won the most tournaments, enough said. We all know the world championship is a joke and even early grandmaster acknowledged this.

    "We"?? You have your reasons for stating that... but ...no. Fischer single handedly bringing down the Soviet Chess Machine..... winning the World Championship... was not a "joke" (meaning >> its worthless, it means nothing, etc etc).

    If the WCC is a joke... then ANY WC.. in anything... is a joke.

    (I wonder how Usain Bolt would take that statement?)

  • #98
    Intrinsicbarbaro wrote:

    Different circumstances. I think a tennis-like approach would be better for chess. Simply have a number 1 each year.

    clms_chess wrote:

    Intrinsicbarbaro wrote:

     

    Karpov won the most tournaments, enough said. We all know the world championship is a joke and even early grandmaster acknowledged this.

     

     

    "We"?? You have your reasons for stating that... but ...no. Fischer single handedly bringing down the Soviet Chess Machine..... winning the World Championship... was not a "joke" (meaning >> its worthless, it means nothing, etc etc).

    If the WCC is a joke... then ANY WC.. in anything... is a joke.

    (I wonder how Usain Bolt would take that statement?)

    Maybe you're right..maybe not... still, the world championship is not a "joke".

    I actually like the format that chess has to determine WC... its different/unique... sets it a part from other "sports".

  • #99

    Easily Milhail Tal or Nimsowitsch. Tal was one of the greatest attackers in history, and of course Nimsowitsch revolutionized the way we look at positional chess with this book "My System" 

  • #100

    It is very hard to say. There is Kasparov, Fisher, Tal, Carlsen, Lasker, Karpov, Nimsowitsch, and Caplablanca. But, I will vote for Kasparov

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