Why are endgame studies important?

darkunorthodox88
NMinSixMonths wrote:
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
NMinSixMonths wrote:

You need to know HOW to end a game before you CAN end a game . This is why the endgame should be studied first, just like in a game you shouldn't base your study off of the pretense that your opponent will blunder. Yes, you need to be able to exploit the blunders and you need to know how to attack but you still need to know how to properly end the game first.

 

For instance, there might be two similar lines that leave you with a queen vs a single pawn. What can possibly matter here? Just play one of the moves! Well oops you just blundered a win into a draw because you allowed your opponent to reach a drawn endgame with a f pawn on the seventh and your king to far away, or maybe you reached the similar winning position but you don't know how to win it so you end up stalemating your opponent in time pressure. Maybe you're up a queen vs a rook but you don't know how to win so it might as well be king vs king. Maybe you end up in a lucena position but you haven't even seen it before and you allow a draw.

 

Or what happens if your opponent does slip and you get your attack but then he defends well, not allowing any mates then what do you do? I'll tell you, you miss 5 billion opportunities to simplify into winning endgames or you somehow blindly walk into a winning endgame and then allow your opponent to draw because you don't know how to end a game.

 

The corollary to all of this is obviously that if you do know how to end a game well, you might blunder and lose a piece or be down a queen vs rook and pawn but because you know how to end a game you set up a fortress that your opponent doesn't even know so of course he has no clue how to prevent it or why he should until it's already too late.

sounds more like rhetoric. knowing how to end a game =/= reaching and endgame.

In my experience most classical OTB games between opponents within a couple hundred points of each other go to the endgame very often, even if it is not materially balanced and one side is up a piece or more. An extra piece by itself is not enough to win a game, in some cases an extra piece and pawn is not enough to win, in some cases even larger material imbalances aren't enough to win. A player that has that knowledge will have a clear advantage obtaining an extra half point versus a player that doesn't. It also gives you a goal to keep in mind when you are up material. I know several ~1300 rated USCF players who would be a hundred or more points stronger with better endgame knowledge, and that knowledge will serve them all the way up the rating ladder.

really? class players in an equalish endgame with a whole piece up or a few pawns isnt an easy win? i mean, so long as you keep so very easy basics in mind (dont trade all your pawns, avoid opposite bishops etc), even class players should win easily.

NMinSixMonths

Nobody said equalish endgame, whatever that means. But even in endgames with equal pawns I've seen class players even stronger than me lose after being a piece up. There are many positions you can attempt to steer the game to secure a draw when down in material, even super GMs have gotten draws in rapid chess after blundering a piece and some have even lost. Chess isn't as easy as you seem to make it out to be even when you are barely more than a class A player yourself.

darkunorthodox88
NMinSixMonths wrote:

Nobody said equalish endgame, whatever that means. But even in endgames with equal pawns I've seen class players even stronger than me lose after being a piece up. There are many positions you can attempt to steer the game to secure a draw when down in material, even super GMs have gotten draws in rapid chess after blundering a piece and some have even lost. Chess isn't as easy as you seem to make it out to be even when you are barely more than a class A player yourself.

class A? son that rating is based on single digit games in i dont even remember what chess variant. i am an NM. if you as much as took a second to go to my profile that would have been obvious. guess that is the limit to your research abilities. if you are gonna insult a player's ability 1. do get the info right 2. actually be a decent chess player 3. dont have some ridiculous handle like "NM in six months" its insulting to those that actually earned the title.

 

i dont know what you have been smoking but almost all endgames being a piece down are a win. the number of exceptions prove the rule. the only semi-frequent exception are positions where the losing side can force liquidation of all pawns. 

kindaspongey

I am not sure what all the fuss is about here. Doesn't everybody agree that some amount of endgame study is a good idea? Doesn't everyone agree that the appropriate amount depends on one's playing level? A number of authors (Silman, Soltis, de la Villa, Smith) have given some sort of indication of the amount-level connection. Does anyone want to say that any of these authors got it close-to-right, drastically-wrong, whatever? For what it is worth, from where I sit (somewhere between 1500 and 1600), I would guess that Silman got it about right.

SeniorPatzer
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
NMinSixMonths wrote:

Nobody said equalish endgame, whatever that means. But even in endgames with equal pawns I've seen class players even stronger than me lose after being a piece up. There are many positions you can attempt to steer the game to secure a draw when down in material, even super GMs have gotten draws in rapid chess after blundering a piece and some have even lost. Chess isn't as easy as you seem to make it out to be even when you are barely more than a class A player yourself.

class A? son that rating is based on single digit games in i dont even remember what chess variant. i am an NM. if you as much as took a second to go to my profile that would have been obvious. guess that is the limit to your research abilities. if you are gonna insult a player's ability 1. do get the info right 2. actually be a decent chess player 3. dont have some ridiculous handle like "NM in six months" its insulting to those that actually earned the title.

 

i dont know what you have been smoking but almost all endgames being a piece down are a win. the number of exceptions prove the rule. the only semi-frequent exception are positions where the losing side can force liquidation of all pawns. 

 

DarkOrthodox, you can apply for a free Diamond membership here on chess.com by being a Titled player.  Just fill out the required paperwork so they can validate your National Master title, and you'll receive it.

 

I wish I could get that.   Gosh, I really do wish I could get all the free videos and goodies that comes with being a titled diamond member.

NMinSixMonths

darkunorthodox88 wrote:

NMinSixMonths wrote:

Nobody said equalish endgame, whatever that means. But even in endgames with equal pawns I've seen class players even stronger than me lose after being a piece up. There are many positions you can attempt to steer the game to secure a draw when down in material, even super GMs have gotten draws in rapid chess after blundering a piece and some have even lost. Chess isn't as easy as you seem to make it out to be even when you are barely more than a class A player yourself.

class A? son that rating is based on single digit games in i dont even remember what chess variant. i am an NM. if you as much as took a second to go to my profile that would have been obvious. guess that is the limit to your research abilities. if you are gonna insult a player's ability 1. do get the info right 2. actually be a decent chess player 3. dont have some ridiculous handle like "NM in six months" its insulting to those that actually earned the title.

 

i dont know what you have been smoking but almost all endgames being a piece down are a win. the number of exceptions prove the rule. the only semi-frequent exception are positions where the losing side can force liquidation of all pawns. 

Nobody buys that you are a NM. Your peak fide is 1953 and your USCF rating 2052. Also, if you had any sense you would know that an extra piece by itself is not winning, that is some of the most basic endgame knowledge a player can learn.

darkunorthodox88
NMinSixMonths wrote:
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
NMinSixMonths wrote:

Nobody said equalish endgame, whatever that means. But even in endgames with equal pawns I've seen class players even stronger than me lose after being a piece up. There are many positions you can attempt to steer the game to secure a draw when down in material, even super GMs have gotten draws in rapid chess after blundering a piece and some have even lost. Chess isn't as easy as you seem to make it out to be even when you are barely more than a class A player yourself.

class A? son that rating is based on single digit games in i dont even remember what chess variant. i am an NM. if you as much as took a second to go to my profile that would have been obvious. guess that is the limit to your research abilities. if you are gonna insult a player's ability 1. do get the info right 2. actually be a decent chess player 3. dont have some ridiculous handle like "NM in six months" its insulting to those that actually earned the title.

 

i dont know what you have been smoking but almost all endgames being a piece down are a win. the number of exceptions prove the rule. the only semi-frequent exception are positions where the losing side can force liquidation of all pawns. 

Nobody buys that you are a NM. Your peak fide is 1953 and your USCF rating 2052. Also, if you had any sense you would know that an extra piece by itself is not winning, that is some of the most basic endgame knowledge a player can learn.

you really want to prove how dumb you are? here uscf ID 13274297. Basic googling is clearly outside your field of expertise.

 

have fun looking like an idiot. that fide rating is based on like 20 games, fide rated tournaments are RARE in florida. that 2052 is wildly outdated.

darkunorthodox88
SeniorPatzer wrote:
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
NMinSixMonths wrote:

Nobody said equalish endgame, whatever that means. But even in endgames with equal pawns I've seen class players even stronger than me lose after being a piece up. There are many positions you can attempt to steer the game to secure a draw when down in material, even super GMs have gotten draws in rapid chess after blundering a piece and some have even lost. Chess isn't as easy as you seem to make it out to be even when you are barely more than a class A player yourself.

class A? son that rating is based on single digit games in i dont even remember what chess variant. i am an NM. if you as much as took a second to go to my profile that would have been obvious. guess that is the limit to your research abilities. if you are gonna insult a player's ability 1. do get the info right 2. actually be a decent chess player 3. dont have some ridiculous handle like "NM in six months" its insulting to those that actually earned the title.

 

i dont know what you have been smoking but almost all endgames being a piece down are a win. the number of exceptions prove the rule. the only semi-frequent exception are positions where the losing side can force liquidation of all pawns. 

 

DarkOrthodox, you can apply for a free Diamond membership here on chess.com by being a Titled player.  Just fill out the required paperwork so they can validate your National Master title, and you'll receive it.

 

I wish I could get that.   Gosh, I really do wish I could get all the free videos and goodies that comes with being a titled diamond member.

im more of an icc kind of guy. old habits die hard. 

darkunorthodox88

an extra piece by itself is not winning....

 

if you cant force a win in an otherwise equal endgame a piece up, then you must be on the real low end of class player or worse.  that's the kind of thing i used to say when i was rated 1000 and didnt understand that the extra piece, gave you free tempi and more territory to almost guarantee that the rest of the pawns are not liquidated, and easily win.

Doirse
NMinSixMonths wrote:
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
NMinSixMonths wrote:

Nobody said equalish endgame, whatever that means. But even in endgames with equal pawns I've seen class players even stronger than me lose after being a piece up. There are many positions you can attempt to steer the game to secure a draw when down in material, even super GMs have gotten draws in rapid chess after blundering a piece and some have even lost. Chess isn't as easy as you seem to make it out to be even when you are barely more than a class A player yourself.

class A? son that rating is based on single digit games in i dont even remember what chess variant. i am an NM. if you as much as took a second to go to my profile that would have been obvious. guess that is the limit to your research abilities. if you are gonna insult a player's ability 1. do get the info right 2. actually be a decent chess player 3. dont have some ridiculous handle like "NM in six months" its insulting to those that actually earned the title.

 

i dont know what you have been smoking but almost all endgames being a piece down are a win. the number of exceptions prove the rule. the only semi-frequent exception are positions where the losing side can force liquidation of all pawns. 

Nobody buys that you are a NM. Your peak fide is 1953 and your USCF rating 2052. Also, if you had any sense you would know that an extra piece by itself is not winning, that is some of the most basic endgame knowledge a player can learn.

 

If his profile name is accurate, he is an NM:

http://www.uschess.org/msa/MbrDtlMain.php?13274297 

SmyslovFan

I don't understand why NMs don't get the free membership they are entitled to here. They get the pretty red letters next to their name, and lots of freebie benefits. There's absolutely no downside that I can see, especially if they're using their real name on their accounts to begin with.

SeniorPatzer
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
SeniorPatzer wrote:
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
NMinSixMonths wrote:

Nobody said equalish endgame, whatever that means. But even in endgames with equal pawns I've seen class players even stronger than me lose after being a piece up. There are many positions you can attempt to steer the game to secure a draw when down in material, even super GMs have gotten draws in rapid chess after blundering a piece and some have even lost. Chess isn't as easy as you seem to make it out to be even when you are barely more than a class A player yourself.

class A? son that rating is based on single digit games in i dont even remember what chess variant. i am an NM. if you as much as took a second to go to my profile that would have been obvious. guess that is the limit to your research abilities. if you are gonna insult a player's ability 1. do get the info right 2. actually be a decent chess player 3. dont have some ridiculous handle like "NM in six months" its insulting to those that actually earned the title.

 

i dont know what you have been smoking but almost all endgames being a piece down are a win. the number of exceptions prove the rule. the only semi-frequent exception are positions where the losing side can force liquidation of all pawns. 

 

DarkOrthodox, you can apply for a free Diamond membership here on chess.com by being a Titled player.  Just fill out the required paperwork so they can validate your National Master title, and you'll receive it.

 

I wish I could get that.   Gosh, I really do wish I could get all the free videos and goodies that comes with being a titled diamond member.

im more of an icc kind of guy. old habits die hard. 

 

Yo DarkOrthodox, can you gift me your Diamond Membership, lol!  I have a 9-year old son and we will both benefit greatly from your gift!!

SeniorPatzer
SeniorPatzer wrote:
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
SeniorPatzer wrote:
darkunorthodox88 wrote:
NMinSixMonths wrote:

Nobody said equalish endgame, whatever that means. But even in endgames with equal pawns I've seen class players even stronger than me lose after being a piece up. There are many positions you can attempt to steer the game to secure a draw when down in material, even super GMs have gotten draws in rapid chess after blundering a piece and some have even lost. Chess isn't as easy as you seem to make it out to be even when you are barely more than a class A player yourself.

class A? son that rating is based on single digit games in i dont even remember what chess variant. i am an NM. if you as much as took a second to go to my profile that would have been obvious. guess that is the limit to your research abilities. if you are gonna insult a player's ability 1. do get the info right 2. actually be a decent chess player 3. dont have some ridiculous handle like "NM in six months" its insulting to those that actually earned the title.

 

i dont know what you have been smoking but almost all endgames being a piece down are a win. the number of exceptions prove the rule. the only semi-frequent exception are positions where the losing side can force liquidation of all pawns. 

 

DarkOrthodox, you can apply for a free Diamond membership here on chess.com by being a Titled player.  Just fill out the required paperwork so they can validate your National Master title, and you'll receive it.

 

I wish I could get that.   Gosh, I really do wish I could get all the free videos and goodies that comes with being a titled diamond member.

im more of an icc kind of guy. old habits die hard. 

 

Yo DarkOrthodox, can you gift me your Diamond Membership, lol!  I have a 9-year old son and we will both benefit greatly from your gift!!  

 

We don't need the Red Letters!  Just all the other stuff.

 

Siyavush999

I do not English

Siyavush999

I do not English