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Women and chess

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Conflagration_Planet
wormrose wrote:

So you're saying women don't play chess because we told them they can't.


 In a sense, yes. I've noticed how slavish a lot of women can be to what society dictates, whether it's injurious to them or not. Men too, but it seems women are worse. Appalling.

Conflagration_Planet

I don't believe in tournaments for women only. In a sense it's demeaning to women by implying that they can't compete with men. Personally, I would rather not have a title at all than have a second class one that implies my gender is dumber than the other one.

Atos
woodshover wrote:

I don't believe in tournaments for women only. In a sense it's demeaning to women by implying that they can't compete with men. Personally, I would rather not have a title at all than have a second class one that implies my gender is dumber than the other one.


If there is a US champion in chess, does that imply that Americans are dumber and cannot compete with other nations ?

Atos
rubygabbi wrote:

Atos said:

I don't see a reason that there should be no women-only tournaments. There are all kinds of tournaments. There are junior championships even though the top juniors are probably GMs or IMs. There are national championships where only players from a certain nation are eligible to play and nobody thinks that this is some form of segregation. There are tournaments for only the players of certain rating etc.

Classification by gender is different from the other examples you mentioned, and "segregation" is not really the issue. National tournaments are not held because a particular nation is considered weaker than other nations in chess play; they are simply a form of a "localized" framework.



And why is this form of  "localized framework" acceptable when it is based on nationality but not when it is based on gender ? 

Surely you people are inserting your own assumptions and interpretations into this. The existence of tournaments for women need not imply anything other than there are tournaments for women. Women might just be interested in competing with other women once a year or so. If women wish to play in such tournaments, it's surely their business.

Conflagration_Planet

Do they have tournaments for men only?

Conflagration_Planet
Atos wrote:
woodshover wrote:

I don't believe in tournaments for women only. In a sense it's demeaning to women by implying that they can't compete with men. Personally, I would rather not have a title at all than have a second class one that implies my gender is dumber than the other one.


If there is a US champion in chess, does that imply that Americans are dumber and cannot compete with other nations ?


 No, silly. Other countries have national champs too. We don't have something called a US World Champian, when there is another real world champ.

TheOldReb
Schackoo wrote:

The discussion is interesting, but I can assure you americans that women don't play more chess in Europe percentually speaking. It seems that interest in chess correlates with interest in mathematics, and that has been proven to be a male dominated field.

Btw, here's a tube that shows what can happen when a woman beats a man in chess. Poor Korchnoi...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eLxi5Vglee4


 I think there are more females playing chess in Europe than in the USA. I played for 25 years in the US and played maybe 6 games against females in all that time. After moving to Europe I have lost count of how many females I have played since arriving here in Nov 1997.

TheOldReb

I have no problem with women only tournaments. Since becoming a senior I am looking forward to playing in Senior events in the US very soon. At long last I have hopes that my opponent in an evening round might be just as tired/sleepy as me at midnight and might even doze off before I do ! Surprised  With the "kids" as opponents there isnt much chance of this happening.....

Atos
woodshover wrote:
Atos wrote:
woodshover wrote:

I don't believe in tournaments for women only. In a sense it's demeaning to women by implying that they can't compete with men. Personally, I would rather not have a title at all than have a second class one that implies my gender is dumber than the other one.


If there is a US champion in chess, does that imply that Americans are dumber and cannot compete with other nations ?


 No, silly. Other countries have national champs too. We don't have something called a US World Champian, when there is another real world champ.


You have a US champion who is understood to be a legitimate champion in this venue of competition, regardless of the fact that there is a world champion. If the US champion happens to be also the world's champion, then he/she will be both but we will not need to abolish the US champion title.

Btw and your national federation also issues its own titles, and do we argue that this is demeaning to US players ?

TheOldReb
Atos wrote:
woodshover wrote:
Atos wrote:
woodshover wrote:

I don't believe in tournaments for women only. In a sense it's demeaning to women by implying that they can't compete with men. Personally, I would rather not have a title at all than have a second class one that implies my gender is dumber than the other one.


If there is a US champion in chess, does that imply that Americans are dumber and cannot compete with other nations ?


 No, silly. Other countries have national champs too. We don't have something called a US World Champian, when there is another real world champ.


You have a US champion who is understood to be a legitimate champion in this venue of competition, regardless of the fact that there is a world champion. If the US champion happens to be also the world's champion, then he/she will be both but we will not need to abolish the US champion title.

Btw and your national federation also issues its own titles, and do we argue that this is demeaning to US players ?


I wonder how many other countries do this ? I know Portugal does as I have also been awarded the NM title by the Portuguese Chess Federation for breaking 2200 FIDE.  I think it makes sense for the US to do it since US players have almost no opportunity to play fide rated chess compared to most other nations, especially nations of Europe.  

Conflagration_Planet

But other countries have national champs too, just like I said fer cryen out loud!! We don't have a US WORLD champ, when there is another REAL world champ.

Atos
Reb wrote:
Atos wrote:
woodshover wrote:
Atos wrote:
woodshover wrote:

I don't believe in tournaments for women only. In a sense it's demeaning to women by implying that they can't compete with men. Personally, I would rather not have a title at all than have a second class one that implies my gender is dumber than the other one.


If there is a US champion in chess, does that imply that Americans are dumber and cannot compete with other nations ?


 No, silly. Other countries have national champs too. We don't have something called a US World Champian, when there is another real world champ.


You have a US champion who is understood to be a legitimate champion in this venue of competition, regardless of the fact that there is a world champion. If the US champion happens to be also the world's champion, then he/she will be both but we will not need to abolish the US champion title.

Btw and your national federation also issues its own titles, and do we argue that this is demeaning to US players ?


I wonder how many other countries do this ? I know Portugal does as I have also been awarded the NM title by the Portuguese Chess Federation for breaking 2200 FIDE.  I think it makes sense for the US to do it since US players have almost no opportunity to play fide rated chess compared to most other nations, especially nations of Europe.  


We don't issue national titles, in Montenegro, but we are very small. Also, it's true that it's pretty easy for our players to compete in Fide tournaments, and even in this small town we can wrap up some pretty strong tournaments with GMs from Serbia, Bulgaria, Romania etc.

Atos
woodshover wrote:

But other countries have national champs too, just like I said fer cryen out loud!! We don't have a US WORLD champ, when there is another REAL world champ.


Okay, there is a junior world champ. Satisfied now ? The junior champ is a GM and competes in non-junior tournaments as well.

Conflagration_Planet
87654321 wrote:

yx can whilst xx cant and vice versa

vive la difference

>:)


 Vivi la stupid.

rrrttt

1.let's put it this way, I'm a boy and I play very positionally

2.Have you checked out the ratio in Russia?

ccmambretti
rubygabbi wrote:.

Atos said:

makes no more sense than arranging tournaments and titles for left-handed players, obese players or red-headed players.

Actually, I'm left-handed and have struggled with a certain amount of dyslexia from time to time. I might like to try playing another leftie to see if he/she makes the same sorts of left-to-right flipping blunders when playing black. Wink

ccmambretti
NrthrnKnght wrote:

I have experienced the same wormrose here in usa.there are exceptions but...most women dont get it about chess.They think its an egghead game ,not exciting enough.Boring,too complicated...on and on.women in europe look at it different.when they see a man playing chess....well... intellectualism is attractive.


The same is true of most American men. Very few people "get it about chess" in this country. It isn't taught as widely as football, for instance. Regardless of gender, if you don't know the game--whatever the game--you don't get it. A teenage girl may go to a football game to observe the hunks, but if she doesn't understand the game, she won't like watching it on TV.

Conflagration_Planet

I think many a man has an ilitest attitude about chess being for men only, and enjoy the idea of women not playing it. Get to feel supereor that way. 

TheOldReb

Speaking of juniors chess Carlsen is still a junior but also the highest rated player in the world. I wonder why he doesnt play in the junior world championship and win it as many times as he can ?  Has he ever ? 

In juniors chess you see different competitions for under 21 , under 18 , under 16 etc...... but in seniors you dont see such divisions and the 80 and up crowd must compete with the 60 yr old youngsters !!  Is that fair I ask ?!  Surprised

Atos
Reb wrote:

Speaking of juniors chess Carlsen is still a junior but also the highest rated player in the world. I wonder why he doesnt play in the junior world championship and win it as many times as he can ?  Has he ever ? 

 


Apparently not, I guess for similar reasons that Judit Polgar didn't like to play in women's events. But we have not abolished junior competitions nevertheless.

I don't think that Polgar would actually have been hurt by obtaining a Woman's World Champion title, or that chess would have suffered as a result.