Slow Chess Game

  • #1

    Yesterday I played a slow chess league game. Drop a comment below to offer suggestions or how I played. I don't know what happened but I can't post the game so I'll just give you guys the link, www.chess.com/livechess/game?id=584207013

    You can drop a comment in this forum or at my game. ThanksLaughing

  • #2

    if I should have played 28...Rd1 and you would have lost the knight Laughing

  • #3

    I don't think so michael101800

  • #4

    in the last position it was a draw by all means, but before 46... e4 was played houdini3.0 gave me ~ -8.0 points which is absolutely winning.

  • #5

    Engines aren't always right

  • #6

    Surprised are you kidding me? houdini3.0 elo is around 3400!! of course it is not "right" in the sense you cannot say it will find the best move all the time, but it will beat you, me and even Carlsen!! and it's so powerful that they use it on GM tournaments to compare and check the status of the games.

  • #7

    Oh wait. I thought u meant after 46...e4

  • #8

    aah, nonono i meant before e4...after e4 i had chances to win but according to houdini it goes down from -8.0 to -1.5 which with good play even at our level is enough to win, but i shouldn't capture your pawn...in fact i should let you capture both of mine! so it was a really bad move. As i mentioned, i didn't see the stalemate coming (i definitely have to improve my stalemate thinking process as your king had obviously no legal moves) so that let me "undefended" for that kind of tactics :(.

  • #9
    DiegoOjedaCastillo wrote:

    aah, nonono i meant before e4...after e4 i had chances to win but according to houdini it goes down from -8.0 to -1.5 which with good play even at our level is enough to win, but i shouldn't capture your pawn...in fact i should let you capture both of mine! so it was a really bad move. As i mentioned, i didn't see the stalemate coming (i definitely have to improve my stalemate thinking process as your king had obviously no legal moves) so that let me "undefended" for that kind of tactics :(.

    lol, more Houdini...

    Yeah, well, the game started out as approximately +.2 (or something close to that) and yet it managed to get to -8.0?? So by what we've seen in the game, the "-1.5" could easily go to back to -8.0 or the other way around, back to +5.0 or something.

    I will post an annotation of the game up, but I will not use the computer analysis. No 1.54s or things like that.

  • #10

    Hi crtexxx, I used houdini only to support my statements i don't know what's the joke on it, could you explain me? and why do you think that the game have managed to get -8.0 is so strange? even on GM game there are several examples of this happening...even nowadays...

  • #11

    [Date "????.??.??"]
    [Result "*"]
    [FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

    1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 { ...e6 is significantly more suitable for this level. Some chess teachers don't recommend any benoni style openings until 2200 otb. } ( 2...e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 { The nimzo indian is for everyone. It is super instructive as well, and solid at even the highest levels. } ) 3.d5 b5 { The Benko Gambit, in which black sacrifices one pawn but gets an easy development and plan towards the queenside, as he opens lines for the rooks there. } 4.cxb5 a6 5.bxa6 Bxa6 6.Nf3 { I am not familiar with the main lines of the Benko Gambit, but if I were white, I would play Nf3, g3, fianchetto, 0-0 as fast as possible and then try to play in the center. White already has good space in the center, and if e4 and e5 can be played, then he will dominate there, distracting black from the queenside play. I don't want to move the e pawn right now because Bxf1 means white will need to spend time to get the Rh1 into play. } 6...g6 7.g3 d6 8.Bg2 Bg7 9.O-O Nbd7 10.Re1 { Nc3 first is better. That move is almost mandatory anyways, since it Is a clear good square for the knight and it also supports the move e4. } 10...O-O 11.Nc3 Ng4 { I don't understand this move. It wastes time by moving the knight to a square g4, where it can go to  e5. This maneuver doesn't even work, since it only helps white to later play Nxe5 followed with f4 and e4 and e5, getting his center play in the future. White needs to get better prepared first. } 12.Bf4 { White found a decent square for the bishop, and this is fine. e4 is natural looking, but it weakened the d3 square. } ( 12.h3 Nge5 13.Nxe5 Nxe5 14.f4 Nc4 15.e4 { OK, maybe not immediately :) but this is the general idea. Here black is standing nicely because his piece activity doesn't match his space. The pawns are more targets than strengths. White can't even move his e3 bishop. } 15...Bd4+ 16.Kh2 Qa5 { Rfb8, and black has an amazing position. He probably winning. So not right now, but later on is good. } ) ( 12.e4 Nge5 { With c4 and d3 coming up. } 13.Nxe5 Nxe5 14.Bf1 Bxf1 15.Kxf1 c4 ) 12...Qb6 13.Qd2 Rfb8 14.Rab1 { This move defended the pawn..it makes some sense. But white could also have played b3 and Rc1 to end the black's counterplay---no wait, never mind, because then the move c4 discovers against f2 :). } ( 14.b3 ) ( 14.b3? c4 ) 14...Nge5 15.Nxe5 Nxe5 16.b3 Qa5 17.Ne4 Rb4 18.Qc2 { This move made a threat of Bd2, so black needs to play backwards. } 18...c4? 19.Bd2 cxb3 20.Bxb4?? { This move is totally a blunder, which is a result of a miscounting in the calculation. Even by common sense, the R is pinned, so we can leave it there and take it after black unpins it. } ( 20.axb3 { The rook goes nowhere. } ) 20...bxc2 21.Bxa5 cxb1=Q 22.Rxb1 Bxe2 { Now black got a discovery along the a file and can attack the a pawn. By the way, Bxe2 got back the gambit pawn. } 23.Re1? { This move worsens things, since it not only doesn't save the pawn (no move can do that), it hands black a neat another permanent advantage: bishop pair. White can hope for a draw with pawns on only 1 side of board, but now black has greater activity with 2 bishops. } ( 23.Bd2 { Or even Bc3. Both moves give white a position with chances to hold a draw, since the pawns on are one side. } ) 23...Nf3+ { Black is forcing the bishop pair for himself. Actually, the forcing of the light squared bishop is especially important because it can protect a weakness on the d5 square. } 24.Bxf3 Bxf3 25.Bc3 Rxa2 26.Bxg7 { He traded off the bishops, but there is a pretty big problem of the weakened d5 pawn now. It is an isolated pawn and can be attacked easily. } 26...Kxg7 27.Nc3 Rc2 28.Nd1 Rd2 ( 28...Rc1 { An easy win. However, the game continuation bags 2 pawns for black, so it is easy win (I hope yereslov doesn't read this :)) as well. } ) 29.Ne3 Kf6 30.h4 Bxd5 31.Nxd5+ Rxd5 32.Kg2 Re5 33.Rd1 Ke6 34.Kf3 d5 35.Kf4 f6 36.f3 h5 37.g4 g5+ 38.hxg5 fxg5+ 39.Kg3 h4+ { And this is another passed pawn. } 40.Kg2 Re2+ 41.Kh3 { King has no moves. } 41...Rf2 42.Re1+ Kd6 43.Re3 e5 44.Rd3 Kc5 45.Re3 Kd4 46.Ra3 e4?? ( 46...Rf1 { Still an easy win. } ) 47.fxe4 Kxe4 48.Re3+ { Stalemate... }
    *

  • #12

    FYI, the Ng4 is a pretty common knight manouver idea in the benko.

  • #13
    DiegoOjedaCastillo wrote:

    Hi crtexxx, I used houdini only to support my statements i don't know what's the joke on it, could you explain me? and why do you think that the game have managed to get -8.0 is so strange? even on GM game there are several examples of this happening...even nowadays...

    Sorry about that. I know you don't spam houdini, and it fine to use it to support a statement (GM games it happens sometimes, but only from positions that are much more complicated than the ones in the game).

    I've had a rather bad encounter with one of the users on this site (one of 2 blocked, the rest are fine), Yereslov. Check out his idiotic and ridiculous posts and his claims to be able to beat than a master ("with the right timing and preparation), how masters are only titled because "they got lucky" and using the same reason to explain his pathetic rating and playing abilities. The most idiotic of them all is his explanation that the only reason he isn't beating masters is because he doesn't know opening theory lol.

    As one of the other members said: "A true Houdini". Can escape any argument against him, even though tied down by a low rating and weighted with awful reasoning and a complete delusion of chess.

    At first I thought he was a troll, but even a troll has a limit.

    The only other player blocked is DICKmyster, and I believe his account got closed.

    Sorry about the tone in my post, once again. I've annotated the game...a decent reader should be able to open it.

     

     


     

    [Date "????.??.??"]
    [Result "*"]
    [FEN "rnbqkbnr/pppppppp/8/8/8/8/PPPPPPPP/RNBQKBNR w KQkq - 0 1"]

    1.d4 Nf6 2.c4 c5 { ...e6 is significantly more suitable for this level. Some chess teachers don't recommend any benoni style openings until 2200 otb. } ( 2...e6 3.Nc3 Bb4 { The nimzo indian is for everyone. It is super instructive as well, and solid at even the highest levels. } ) 3.d5 b5 { The Benko Gambit, in which black sacrifices one pawn but gets an easy development and plan towards the queenside, as he opens lines for the rooks there. } 4.cxb5 a6 5.bxa6 Bxa6 6.Nf3 { I am not familiar with the main lines of the Benko Gambit, but if I were white, I would play Nf3, g3, fianchetto, 0-0 as fast as possible and then try to play in the center. White already has good space in the center, and if e4 and e5 can be played, then he will dominate there, distracting black from the queenside play. I don't want to move the e pawn right now because Bxf1 means white will need to spend time to get the Rh1 into play. } 6...g6 7.g3 d6 8.Bg2 Bg7 9.O-O Nbd7 10.Re1 { Nc3 first is better. That move is almost mandatory anyways, since it Is a clear good square for the knight and it also supports the move e4. } 10...O-O 11.Nc3 Ng4 { I don't understand this move. It wastes time by moving the knight to a square g4, where it can go to  e5. This maneuver doesn't even work, since it only helps white to later play Nxe5 followed with f4 and e4 and e5, getting his center play in the future. White needs to get better prepared first. } 12.Bf4 { White found a decent square for the bishop, and this is fine. e4 is natural looking, but it weakened the d3 square. } ( 12.h3 Nge5 13.Nxe5 Nxe5 14.f4 Nc4 15.e4 { OK, maybe not immediately :) but this is the general idea. Here black is standing nicely because his piece activity doesn't match his space. The pawns are more targets than strengths. White can't even move his e3 bishop. } 15...Bd4+ 16.Kh2 Qa5 { Rfb8, and black has an amazing position. He probably winning. So not right now, but later on is good. } ) ( 12.e4 Nge5 { With c4 and d3 coming up. } 13.Nxe5 Nxe5 14.Bf1 Bxf1 15.Kxf1 c4 ) 12...Qb6 13.Qd2 Rfb8 14.Rab1 { This move defended the pawn..it makes some sense. But white could also have played b3 and Rc1 to end the black's counterplay---no wait, never mind, because then the move c4 discovers against f2 :). } ( 14.b3 ) ( 14.b3? c4 ) 14...Nge5 15.Nxe5 Nxe5 16.b3 Qa5 17.Ne4 Rb4 18.Qc2 { This move made a threat of Bd2, so black needs to play backwards. } 18...c4? 19.Bd2 cxb3 20.Bxb4?? { This move is totally a blunder, which is a result of a miscounting in the calculation. Even by common sense, the R is pinned, so we can leave it there and take it after black unpins it. } ( 20.axb3 { The rook goes nowhere. } ) 20...bxc2 21.Bxa5 cxb1=Q 22.Rxb1 Bxe2 { Now black got a discovery along the a file and can attack the a pawn. By the way, Bxe2 got back the gambit pawn. } 23.Re1? { This move worsens things, since it not only doesn't save the pawn (no move can do that), it hands black a neat another permanent advantage: bishop pair. White can hope for a draw with pawns on only 1 side of board, but now black has greater activity with 2 bishops. } ( 23.Bd2 { Or even Bc3. Both moves give white a position with chances to hold a draw, since the pawns on are one side. } ) 23...Nf3+ { Black is forcing the bishop pair for himself. Actually, the forcing of the light squared bishop is especially important because it can protect a weakness on the d5 square. } 24.Bxf3 Bxf3 25.Bc3 Rxa2 26.Bxg7 { He traded off the bishops, but there is a pretty big problem of the weakened d5 pawn now. It is an isolated pawn and can be attacked easily. } 26...Kxg7 27.Nc3 Rc2 28.Nd1 Rd2 ( 28...Rc1 { An easy win. However, the game continuation bags 2 pawns for black, so it is easy win (I hope yereslov doesn't read this :)) as well. } ) 29.Ne3 Kf6 30.h4 Bxd5 31.Nxd5+ Rxd5 32.Kg2 Re5 33.Rd1 Ke6 34.Kf3 d5 35.Kf4 f6 36.f3 h5 37.g4 g5+ 38.hxg5 fxg5+ 39.Kg3 h4+ { And this is another passed pawn. } 40.Kg2 Re2+ 41.Kh3 { King has no moves. } 41...Rf2 42.Re1+ Kd6 43.Re3 e5 44.Rd3 Kc5 45.Re3 Kd4 46.Ra3 e4?? ( 46...Rf1 { Still an easy win. } ) 47.fxe4 Kxe4 48.Re3+ { Stalemate... }
    *

  • #14

    so now it's important for me to clarify that i openned houdini ONLY after the game and for analysis purposes. I feel very comfortable with the benoni type of pawn structure. Also, although i think the Ng4 timing was not good in this game, it is a pretty common kinght manouver idea in the benko and it was good to me to exchange knights as i had less space and both knights were somewhat "redundants".

  • #15
    DiegoOjedaCastillo wrote:

    so now it's important for me to clarify that i openned houdini ONLY after the game and for analysis purposes. I feel very comfortable with the benoni type of pawn structure. Also, although i think the Ng4 timing was not good in this game, it is a pretty common kinght manouver idea in the benko and it was good to me to exchange knights as i had less space and both knights were somewhat "redundants".


    That's great, and I wasn't accusing you of cheating.

    You have only to take a look at Yereslov's forum threads, especially his most recent one to know what I am talking about in my 3rd post (16)

    hmm...Yeah according to the computer Ng4 is ok in that position. I didn't like it at first according to the general principles (moves like Qa5 and Rb8 should be played first) but I don't know anything about benko gambit. Ne5 is a better idea because it discourages e4, since d3 is weak.

  • #16

    yes well, you mean Ng4-e5 or Nde5? as i don't think Nde5 is a good idea because after Nxe5 dxe5 i get a horroble pawn structure and a very weak c pawn. The weak d3 square is exactly the idea behind Ng4-e5....in fact there are some games i reviewed were the black side do the following bishop manouver to force e4 and therefore leaving a nice knight outpost on d3: Bc8-f5 (when there's a queen on c2 and a rook on b1, e4 is almost forced)

  • #17

    Regarding Yereslov, i don't know who he is and i really don't care, but i reviewed his profile and he seems to have a very bad reputation and i can infer that he is a jerk and  a troll and doesn't worth any reference nor conversation :).

  • #18

    Not Nde5. It shuts down your bishop too. I mean Ng4-e5, that is the better idea, and black is having a good spot for the knight.

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