Unsportsmanlike Time Wasting

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Avatar of jackuhlantern

I'm not sure what the solution for this is, but I have had at least two games now that have been in drawn positions (rook, pawn, king vs. rook, pawn, king) and nearly lost because my opponent decided to make useless moves in an attempt to run out my clock (despite my having 2+ minutes left). I've also noticed that the most recent had a board position repeated three times that wasn't counted. 

Is there any way to discourage this kind of behavior or encourage accepting draws in a drawn position? I understand if there are less than 30 seconds left, but it's absurd to move a rook around so much to kill more than two minutes. 

Avatar of notmtwain

The way to discourage that type of behavior is to claim the threefold repetition by hitting the draw button. It's not automatic.

Fortunately, it doesn't occur very often.

 

Avatar of jackuhlantern

I did hit the draw button and it didn't work the first time. Later we exchanged rooks and were in this position:

And the game lasted another 16 moves (100 total) because they avoided repetition and declined draws.

Avatar of Ghostliner

It's a good question, one that I've pondered many times myself over the years - there's nothing you can do. Yes, it's bad etiquette, you might even say that it's bloody rude but there's nothing you can do about it, because the opponent isn't actually breaking any rules.

There's a football analogy that works well for me: imagine you're managing a team that's 2-0 up with ten minutes to play, you're sitting deep and under some pressure but nothing too serious. As the manager, what do you expect from your players?

Focus. Concentrate. Keep your discipline. Hold the line. Don't get sloppy etc etc

So it is in chess - forget your opponent and focus on what's happening on the board. If you feel you have a result in hand, just calmly play your way to it.

Avatar of Pulpofeira

If OTB you can claim the draw when you have less than two minutes remaining.

Avatar of ModestAndPolite
jackuhlantern wrote:

I'm not sure what the solution for this is, but I have had at least two games now that have been in drawn positions (rook, pawn, king vs. rook, pawn, king) and nearly lost because my opponent decided to make useless moves in an attempt to run out my clock (despite my having 2+ minutes left). I've also noticed that the most recent had a board position repeated three times that wasn't counted. 

Is there any way to discourage this kind of behavior or encourage accepting draws in a drawn position? I understand if there are less than 30 seconds left, but it's absurd to move a rook around so much to kill more than two minutes. 

 

It is often though unsporting, and is illegal in "normal tempo" games in OTB competitions. But moving quickly to win on time is part of the game in fast time limit games.  You might be in a winning position, but your opponent can argue that you achieved that only by using up too much time.

 

I often lose won and drawn positions on-line at 10-minute chess and lose even more at 1-minute bullet.  I will not whinge about it.  My opponents have played correctly within the rules of the game.  If I Iose it is because I made worse mistakes than they did, and running so short of time that you cannot finish off the game can, in a limited time game, be a worse mistake than making objectively bad moves on the board.

 

If you don't like it you have many options.  You can play with the Fischer clock, where you are given extra time for each move you complete, or you can choose to play at time limits that give you long enough to convert an advantage once you have achieved it, or you can stick to OTB play where you can protest to the controller that your opponent is "not trying to win by normal means" and have the game declared drawn.

 

What I do get annoyed by is opponents that just allow the clock to run down when they are in a bad position, even if they have many minutes left.  Their reasoning seems to be that if I am going to beat them they will get revenge by wasting a few minutes of my life.  I simply block those people.

Avatar of notmtwain

You could have forced a draw by stalemate in two moves from the position you showed (which was after black's move 87). 

I'm curious to find out when you thought it was a draw (earlier in the game).

 

It looks like you missed at least one pretty basic win in the endgame. Have you ever studied basic king and pawn endgames?  Two minutes isn't much time but it should have been enough time to have figured that one out.)

In a position like you reached in the end, it doesn't matter if you run out of time. The result will be a draw.  Black cannot win because black hasn't had mating material since move 81 when he lost his last pawn.

Avatar of Ninjakiwi17

That's normal and fine in blitz, and if you can't draw, blame yourself

Avatar of jackuhlantern

I was black and chess.com's computers would consider this white's win since he has "adequate material" so far as I understand. It seemed like a draw by move 57 (since all he did was push his rook around) and that's when I had I think 2:15 left. Also, shouldn't move 60 be draw by repetition?

By the time we were down to king pawn endgame I think I had seconds left and was really irritated and prone to error. I haven't studied extensively and it's probably clear that even 78. ... Ke1 would've resulted in 79. f5 with another 21 moves or so because they wouldn't push the pawn to the 7th rank to allow stalemate.

I have no qualms with winning on time, even at a disadvantage, but when your opponent still has 20% of their time left it seems unsporting. Not totally equivalent, but it would be a bit like waiting for your own clock to run down with the hope the opponent resigns before a forced stalemate. 

Avatar of ModestAndPolite
jackuhlantern wrote:

I have no qualms with winning on time, even at a disadvantage, but when your opponent still has 20% of their time left it seems unsporting. 

 

Why? As Alekhine first pointed out, the clock is part of the game.  Mishandling the clock is just as bad a mistake as mishandling the pieces. 

 

In any case this is Blitz. "Normal" tempo chess is very different ... except for those tt-addicts that habitually waste most of their time early in the game, and leave themselves only a few minutes for the most critical part. 

Avatar of jackuhlantern

This wasn't a case of mishandling the clock, though. Clearly, I had enough time for a draw by repetition and we were both at about the same level skill and piece wise.

Blitz or not, it strikes me as a childish attempt at victory, like calling your opponent names or bragging about the position to distract them. Playing within the rules isn't always the same as playing fairly.

Clearly, most people don't seem to think that chess (or at least blitz chess) comes with any kind of etiquette, though, so I won't try to push the idea.

I'll just silently pout about it...

Avatar of KassySC

Not on topic, but  76...RxRe4?? was a game losing blunder in an otherwise drawn position.

77 KxRe4 Kf7

78 Kd5! Ke7

79 Ke5 Kf7

80 Kd6 +-

is game over as white has reached a critical sqaure(3 squares adjacent to the target pawn on g6)

Avatar of Stich28
Someone play with me
Avatar of Stich28
Fine dont.
Avatar of Frodo22

chess isn't a sport.  But I agree the lack of basic manners on chess.com is alarming.  Why would you want to waste 30 mins of someone's time only to delay a loss??

Avatar of M_Chandler
You have to claim the draw by repetition.
Avatar of Salem-Saberhagen

it all stems from the way noobs are brought into the game. the simple solution is to prevent dockers from learning it in the first place, the fact they never thought of that shows how little brains there is in chess.