Brexit

We have splits in the Tory Party and ruling class on the issue.  We have splits in the Labour movement on the issue.  I get the impression that many people don't understand, don't care or are being deliberately railroaded one way or the other on whether the UK should leave the EU.  Please give objecive views.

Good answers Tom, thank you.  That doesn't neccesarily mean that I agree with you though

Blythe? I spoke there a couple of years ago, nice people Tom.  I think the vote will go in favour of staying in but not sure it'll be the right decision.  We have 'Boris and the Monsters' on the one side banging the nationalist drum, singing 'Johnny foreigner' and their opposites in the Tory Party saying differently.  The Tories bear in mind, have never been known to be sympathetic for what's best for British people but only for their big business backers.

Then we have the LP,' including 'Corbyn and the Boys', singing a similar song to the Tories of 'Lets all dance Together'.  The trade union leadership have been absent for many years when it comes to representing ordinary working people (their members), also support the current system.  Bear in mind that the average TU leadership salary is around £80k, officials being on about £40k.  Members often being on about £12-20k, if they're lucky.

We have some TU's voicing a different opinion.  That being in the EEU means accepting the privatisation of everything, and it does.  This means the end of everything that most of have grown up with like free education and health care. Everything has to make a profit they say.  Though I don't know why.

On the other hand, if we come out of the EEU, we have the Tories lining up with a British Bill of Rights.  We don't yet know what that is but you can bet your bottom $ it will be worse than what we have now.  They're already attempting to remove our protection by opting out of the Human Rights Act.  Then there's TTIP, but prefer not to focus too much on this at the mo.  Some food for thought I hope and will attract more thoughtful comments.

We should leave.

We have no control over our borders - anyone from any EU country can come in to Britain, and our public services are under enough pressure as is.

We have very little control over our laws - the EU has too much influence.

It costs a ridiculous amount of money to be a member. And I know that we get some money back from the EU, but it's not nearly enough.

The government and banks benefit massively from the EU due to profits made from cheap labour from migrants. Also, MEP's and EU leaders basically have a job for life since no-one can vote them in or out. It's undemocratic. No wonder why these people want us to stay! By warning us that there is a "risk" if we leave and "we don't know what will happen", it is blatant scaremongering. Many other countries aren't in the EU and are doing just fine. The government and banks pretend to care about the average Brit, but I'm not fooled. Of course, there are some MP's and bankers that genuinely do care about Britain and not just their jobs, but they are overall the minority.

Unfortunately, I'm not optimistic. Many idiots will fall for this propoganda, and I don't that think enough people will vote out in June.

Oh, and the reason why Britain doesn't have the Euro is because it's a weak currency - much weaker than the pound.

Thanks Gf, more good points though I'm not sure about about the border issue.  I tend to think that's a red herring as like you say, most of the issues are financial.  Reductions in wages have been blamed on immigrants rather than the employers exploiting them, and the rest of us. Prices didn't drop, just our wages; profits increased.

Do people agree that there seems to be good points for and against?  It's what concerns me, a lot of people don't seem to be aware of many of the implications but I don't think it's because they're idiots, I think it's genuinly confusing, deliberately from some propagandists.

I have read little about it all, and was in the 'leave' camp before this weekend, always was.

but George Osborne, not a man I particularly like but at the same time he is not prone to bullshitting, said property prices in the UK could fall by up to 18% if we leave. I'm not prepared to take a hit like that so I've changed my mind and I'm voting to stay in. Better the devil you know.

not where I live, but maybe where you are.

 Thanks Kay! And yes, that's what some will have us believe.  If house prices did drop, and I don't know why they would, what difference would it make except to possibly make home ownership more accessible to more people?  If I got £20k less for my house if I sold it to buy a different house then surely the price of that one would have dropped too?  Like I say, it's one of the reasons I'm asking the questions because I've heard so many 'red herrings'.

you're right, it will be interesting, I never thought I'd change my mind but I did today. so at least from now on I can switch off from it all

Either way, a decision will be made soon, the implications of which will be with us for some time.  Other countries have opted out amongst the same rhetoric and scaremongering without any devastating effect that I know of.

With 53 countries/nations in the Commonwealth, some people think it might be more of an advantage to strengthen/invest within that.

When the UK joined the EU, it reduced its trade ties with many Commonwealth countries in order to sign up to the EU’s common trade policy. It’s sometimes suggested that if the UK left the EU, it could simply reverse that policy, making up for any loss in trade with the remaining EU by increasing Commonwealth trade again.

The UK’s exports to Commonwealth countries have been increasing at over 10% a year – with increases (over two years) of 33% to India, 31% to South Africa, 30% to Australia and 18% to Canada. In fact, since 2004, British exports to India are up 143%.

Is it possible that after leaving the EU, the UK could negotiate trade deals with Commonwealth countries more quickly, or deals which are even more favourable to the UK?

It seems likely.  Business is business, as they say, and why would any business's miss an opportunity once opened?  This is why I think the threats we hear about leaving the Euro would damage the economy are suspect.  The left leaning TU's argue correctly that being in the Euro means we're tied hand and foot to the ideology of privatisation of our entire economy.

  However, in the 'opposite corner' we have 'Boris and his Boys' waiting to 'make our workforce more flexible'.  And I think we all know what that means.  Currently, it's only EEU legislation that saves us from some of the worst attitudes of a Tory Govt hellbent on taking our conditons back to Dickensian times. 

..and I meant to add that our public services are only under pressure because they're underfunded.  We're told that there's no money for them but corporation tax is reduced year after year and around £130 billion tax is uncollected from big business.  So the money could be there, the public services could be funded properly, but the Govt chooses not to.  Therefore is it really a valid argument for staying or leaving the EEU?  Bear in mind if we stay then the same public services will be privatised; there will no longer be public services as we know them.

yes

so therapies would have to be in private clinics, Brexit is not politics, it is like some group therapy at the scale of a big Island. archipel too, iplying not the Commonwealth.

Who thinks brexit is political topic ?               just asking

very interesting thread, i mean it ty for having not blocking fB, me. We all know who I am. Me, nothing more.

The opening for you is right behind you fb, shut it on the way out.

we must appreciate not to be blocked here, ty, it seems that Brexit therapy, not political thema fortunately, will bring peace and love , we'd like to know more, may be there was a thread about it, derogatory  too, giving us examples of Brexit as therapy leaded by an expert. In therapies, in politics, in everything, anger too!

If blocked here, it seems therapy is something imaginary,

thus  Brexit can be a political Thema, who knows ???  we'd like to know more.

in that case, REPORTED ! (already done, first level OP). 

International sites should not tolerate racism, fascim, bulling ..... and false bidon therapy by false launcher alert creating buzz for his group of very weird members. 

We all know who is OP, as we know that fB is me, fB!

That Brexit thread should be closed as politics, according to TOS, or should be considered as hidden therapy for weird false launcher of alerts, the type of member no international site should admit, worse than any suffering ordinary member, fB or not fB, that is not the point, OP. Brexit therapy or "open discussion", loud and clear, now ! all regular basic peaceful members waiting for!

ty, anger is still here in your last post, tt..t..

Please go away Frenchbasher, there's a good lad.