Manatini wrote:
I'm not going to debate Christianity with "Christians" who haven't even read the Bible.
I have read nearly the whole Bible. Just gotta get through the epistles.
Controversial Topic (Creation vs Evolution 2?)
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SoulMate333 wrote:
First, Pharaoh was not an innocent or godly man. He was a brutal dictator overseeing the terrible abuse and oppression of the Israelites, who likely numbered over 1.5 million people at that time. The Egyptian pharaohs had enslaved the Israelites for 400 years. Pharaoh ordered male Israelite babies be killed at birth (Exodus1:16). The pharaoh God hardened was an evil man, and the nation he ruled agreed with, or at least did not oppose, his evil actions.
Second, on least a couple occasions, Pharaoh hardened his own heart against letting the Israelites go: “But when Pharaoh saw that there was relief, he hardened his heart” (Exodus 8:15). “But this time also Pharaoh hardened his heart” (Exodus 8:32). It seems that God and Pharaoh were both active in one way or another in the hardening of Pharaoh’s heart. As the plagues continued, God gave Pharaoh increasingly severe warnings of the final judgment to come. Pharaoh chose to bring further judgment on himself and his nation by hardening his own heart against God’s commands. The plagues, as terrible as they were, actually demonstrate God’s mercy in not completely destroying Egypt, which would have been a perfectly just penalty.
Manatini wrote:
SoulMate333 wrote:
Please read my post carefully Manatini. I explained all this.
Explain to me why God forced the pharaoh to say no, and then killed innocent children.
1. Back then, children were not spared in warfare.
2. Pharaoh was just that evil. If one person in the family sins, the whole family will be affected.
3. What could God do? As shown above, Pharoah hardened his own heart many times, even after hailstorms, locusts, etc, so I don’t think there could be much more to do than start killing.
Manatini wrote:
HolographWars wrote:
1. Back then, children were not spared in warfare.
So morality is relative.
"Back then" it was ok to kill innocent children, but today it is not ok.
Plus it wasn't warfare. It was divine judgement.
Jesus wasn’t there back then. Time wise, morality is quite relative.
Manatini wrote:
HolographWars wrote:
2. Pharaoh was just that evil. If one person in the family sins, the whole family will be affected.
He was not "that evil"
He would have said "yes, I will let your people go"
But God forced him to say no, and then punished the innocent.
Forced?
He himself hardened his own heart many times.
Manatini wrote:
HolographWars wrote:
Manatini wrote:
HolographWars wrote:
1. Back then, children were not spared in warfare.
So morality is relative.
"Back then" it was ok to kill innocent children, but today it is not ok.
Plus it wasn't warfare. It was divine judgement.
Jesus wasn’t there back then.
Jesus isn't here today either.
But God (according to Christians) has always been around.
Jesus is here, listening to this conversation. 😯
Manatini wrote:
HolographWars wrote:
3. What could God do?
lol, I love it.
"What could an all powerful and all knowing God do?"
lol. As if God was forced into a corner and didn't have any options.
He could have ended it peacefully. He could have revealed himself to everyone, and given all sides plenty of time to understand.
I think he revealed himself with the 10 plagues.
God cannot stand evil! So he must kill the children. Keep in mind this is all OT, and NT is much different. As it is now, with the NT to get to Heaven all you must do is believe. Isn’t that wonderful?
Manatini wrote:
HolographWars wrote:
Manatini wrote:
HolographWars wrote:
3. What could God do?
lol, I love it.
"What could an all powerful and all knowing God do?"
lol. As if God was forced into a corner and didn't have any options.
He could have ended it peacefully. He could have revealed himself to everyone, and given all sides plenty of time to understand.
I think he revealed himself with the 10 plagues.
So we agree that he's an evil God who reveals himself through plagues instead of through love and diplomacy and teaching, empathy, etc.
Good.
Pharaoh was cruelt enslaving. Of course punishment was needed.
Do you not think God tried? Moses tried. But pharaoh turned him down and doubled the workload. Better punish now to prove God’s existence.
Manatini wrote:
"God cannot stand evil"
Ok then answer me this.
Who created the Devil?
Who created Hell?
Who kills innocent children in order to prove his might?
Who is so vain that he demands worship under threat of eternal torture?
Put them 1 at a time, these altogether are a loaded paragraph.
Manatini wrote:
HolographWars wrote:
Do you not think God tried?
No, his attempts were pathetic, and when they failed, he even forced the pharaoh to choose evil over good, and then punished him for it.
Your opinion. Pharaoh was a terrible man by enslaving a whole race of people.
Aug 16, 2019
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#295
You'd never believe these people figured out how to play chess. Boggles the mind, luckily I'm wearing waist high boots.
Aug 16, 2019
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#296
@Manatini, God has a special plan for every single thing on this earth...and the universe and all creation. That does not mean that it is in our favor 24/7. God has a plan for the good and bad things/people. Ya know...God has a purpose for this conversation! Whether it changes someones life here, or otherwise 
Also, about your comment on how “a real god would let you call him on the telephone”...You can talk to God anytime of the day, in any moment, in any situation...God will hear you!! You can have a long conversation, or a short conversation. You can call God
sorry, some of this may not make sense, and i’m not a great explainer, but I do KNOW that I have a REAL God and He really cares about me. And He has the best plan for me.
Aug 16, 2019
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#297
I think you are failing to understand Manatini. You say God is mean and evil because he punishes people who don’t do what he wants. So suppose you are a parent and you have kids. The kids deny your existence, refuse to talk to you, spit in your face and mock you their whole lives. You offer them an offer that is good for their entire life. If they accept the offer, admit your existence, and what you did for them as a parent and the sacrifices you made, and say that they know you love them, then you won’t kick them out of the house. So you want God to just let people step all over him? I suppose you’d then call him a weak pathetic God.
Aug 16, 2019
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#298
Also, what if their was no free will? A world without free will is a perfect one. No love, no feelings, but no hate too. Robots living for Jesus. You atheists like to ask for God to reveal himself to you. If you’ve been spitting on the White House steps and asking for Trump to reveal himself if he’s real, do you think he’d be likely to come out? You like to rely on macro evolution. Unfortunately, you’re missing about 300 million missing links to support that theory. Darwin himself said that if millions of links weren’t found his theory was invalid. Even if you don’t believe in creation, please don’t insult people’s intellects by saying that something come from nothing or that something was infinitely there and that nothingness had a process that turned it into something.
Aug 16, 2019
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#299
chessfightstream wrote:
I think you are failing to understand Manatini. You say God is mean and evil because he punishes people who don’t do what he wants. So suppose you are a parent and you have kids. The kids deny your existence, refuse to talk to you, spit in your face and mock you their whole lives. You offer them an offer that is good for their entire life. If they accept the offer, admit your existence, and what you did for them as a parent and the sacrifices you made, and say that they know you love them, then you won’t kick them out of the house. So you want God to just let people step all over him? I suppose you’d then call him a weak pathetic God.
Do you have kids?
My kids don't deny my existence because they experience me in the physical world and have conversations with me. They know I'm there for them when they fall even if they disobey me. When they are adults (1 of them is) and don't want me in their life (hasn't happened yet) , I hope I have the strength to leave them alone and not wreck vengeance like some weak pathetic egoist. But then that's just the bunny. I'd expect more from god.
Aug 16, 2019
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#300
Also, you haven’t addressed irreducible complexity at all. Take a peek into that. Absolutely no argument has been found against. Furthermore, even with the largest scientific leaps that we have made, we still can’t recreate DNA or even living single cell organisms. So, even if the theory that something could appear from nothing is true , life could not appear. Furthermore, even if it could, the chances are ridiculously low that this earth could be formed in this certain spot with life conditions in only the first 17.5 billion years since the Big Bang. Mathematically, 5 Quintillion years would be one of the earliest estimated for the conditions to arise. Let me remind you that we know of no other planet that is perfectly suited for life at this point.
There is hell, but you have a chance on Earth, and that is grace.