Does True Randomness Actually Exist?

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Avatar of KaenoxXR

Planck’s quote is often misunderstood. “Faith” here doesn’t mean belief in the religious sense, but rather trust in methodological assumptions — like the consistency of natural laws and the usefulness of models. Science doesn’t rely on faith as justification; it relies on testable and revisable assumptions.

Avatar of noodles2112

you are referring to the scientific method - much of so-called "science/scientific community" excludes the scientific method.

one has to have faith in order to believe they know what's going on a zillion light years away !!

Avatar of playerafar
Elroch wrote:

Most scientists don't really delve into philosophy at all, beyond what normal thinking by normal people does!

Agreed. On most of that.
But scientists like other people - have philosophies and use them constantly.
Even if they don't call whatever 'philosophies'.
Are scientists 'normal'?
Normal - a very overworked word.

Avatar of Elroch
noodles2112 wrote:

you are referring to the scientific method - much of so-called "science/scientific community" excludes the scientific method.

one has to have faith in order to believe they know what's going on a zillion light years away !!

No, you have to have some scientific understanding, or at least to respect scientific understanding. You fail on both.

Avatar of noodles2112

I respect science - I have little/no respect for "pseudoscience masquerading as science" !

Avatar of Elroch

Your assessment does not have a basis for reliability. This is why it is wrong. You believe nonsense, and fabricate absurd ways to continue being wrong.

Avatar of noodles2112

we are just speaking "different languages" is all -

I try to keep things simple & easy to understand i.e. basic common sense(s)!happy.png

Avatar of KaenoxXR

It feels like this discussion is mixing two different meanings of “faith.”

One is methodological trust in scientific assumptions, and the other is belief without evidence. If we don’t separate these, we end up talking past each other.

Avatar of noodles2112

"trust in science" aka "trust the science" -- is referred to as Scientism - aka - a religion which requires faith !

Avatar of KaenoxXR

You’re conflating trust in scientific methodology with scientism. They are not the same thing, and treating them as identical leads to a false conclusion.

Avatar of noodles2112

exactly how would you separate the two ?- science/scientism are interconnected !

Avatar of KaenoxXR

They are related, but not identical.

Science is a methodological framework for testing and refining models based on evidence. Scientism is a philosophical claim about the exclusive authority of that framework.

Connection does not imply equivalence.

Avatar of noodles2112

so layman vs "the experts" - its "trusting the experts/science" that is referred to as scientism - no matter how thick the textbook(s) -

so really the only way to separate them is -- via "authority" ---- it would appear !

Avatar of KaenoxXR

Hm scientific trust is based on a reproducible process, not simply deference to experts. Experts apply the method, but they are not the source of its validity. That’s why this is not scientism.

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

the scientific method gets its comeuppance all the time ! fixed land mass, life from a soup can, tabula rasa, etc. the list is sooo long. me ? ...i have gobs a skepticism for the SM but i also have some respect for it.

most ppl here arent smart enuf to u/s that the SM came OUTTA the "philosophy a science" ...not the other way around.

Avatar of KaenoxXR

I actually agree with part of this. Modern science did historically emerge from natural philosophy. But I’d also say the scientific method became valuable precisely because it introduced systematic testing and self-correction beyond purely philosophical speculation.

Avatar of noodles2112

"scientific trust is based on a reproducible process" -

not always!

Avatar of KaenoxXR

“Not always” doesn’t negate the principle; it just shows that you’re using a very narrow definition of reproducibility.

Avatar of KaenoxXR

And scientific reliability is based on broader reproducibility: independent confirmation, converging evidence, and consistency across methods.

Avatar of Thee_Ghostess_Lola

but then i also closely watch my (and others) biorhythms ...which ppl laff at me for that. personally ? ...i bleeve theyre influencers.

science says nothing happens w/out a reason right ? ...not really convinced physical, emotional, intellectual wouldnt either via dw/dt (sine wave).