Chess coaches?

mjharris77

Weird question but what exactly do chess coaches do to help their students? Obviously it's a lot different teaching a newcomer than someone like me who is about 1100, to a grand master. So each lesson needs to cater to the student. I'm just kind of curious as to what I'd expect as an advanced beginner (is that correct)? Chess doesn't seem to me like teaching maths or similar, there's not a syllabus exactly, or is there? And how effective is it to learn via Skype over in person like a private tutor?

IMBacon

You will often hear someone ask: "Why do i need a coach, when i have a chess engine"?

The answer is...a chess coach can give the "why" behind a move, position, opening, position, etc.  Engines cant do that.

A good coach will tailor the lessons to the students ability, and hold them accountable.

These are all things a chess engine cannot do.

 

mjharris77
IMBacon wrote:

You will often hear someone ask: "Why do i need a coach, when i have a chess engine"?

The answer is...a chess coach can give the "why" behind a move, position, opening, position, etc.  Engines cant do that.

A good coach will tailor the lessons to the students ability, and hold them accountable.

These are all things a chess engine cannot do.

 

Yeah that's kind of what I thought. How would you say a coach compares via Skype which seems far more common than in person like a tutor?

IMBacon
mjharris77 wrote:
IMBacon wrote:

You will often hear someone ask: "Why do i need a coach, when i have a chess engine"?

The answer is...a chess coach can give the "why" behind a move, position, opening, position, etc.  Engines cant do that.

A good coach will tailor the lessons to the students ability, and hold them accountable.

These are all things a chess engine cannot do.

 

Yeah that's kind of what I thought. How would you say a coach compares via Skype which seems far more common than in person like a tutor?

Nothing beats face to face, but thats not always possible.  So in those cases, skype, and other online video services is the nest best thing.

 

mjharris77

Thanks. I'll probably get a coach at some point, right now I'm not currently able to. Another question, of all the many possible coaches (on this site and elsewhere), how can you know who'll be best for you? I'd rather not go through 10 different potential coaches until I find one that works for me.

IMBacon
mjharris77 wrote:

Thanks. I'll probably get a coach at some point, right now I'm not currently able to. Another question, of all the many possible coaches (on this site and elsewhere), how can you know who'll be best for you? I'd rather not go through 10 different potential coaches until I find one that works for me.

I will tell you what i tell anyone that asks this question. 

Finding a good coach that is a good fit for you, is like buying shoes.  If you're going to base your decision solely on name brand, style, what everyone else wears?  You run the risk of investing in something that isn't a good fit for you. 

You need to find a coach that is a good fit.  Not someone that is a hip...trendy...known...popular...etc. choice.

I guess what i am saying is...Dont base your decision on a coach simply because of a title, or rating they hold.  The best coach i ever had was a friend that is a Candidate Master.

 

 

 

RonPaulsSteelBalls

A teacher will give you, the student, a more proper, or classical, foundation with their high-level view of why and how to achieve things thus avoiding needless pain and countless hours of enduring such pain.

 

Serious players require serious coaches. Do it if it is calling you!

mjharris77
IMBacon wrote:
mjharris77 wrote:

Thanks. I'll probably get a coach at some point, right now I'm not currently able to. Another question, of all the many possible coaches (on this site and elsewhere), how can you know who'll be best for you? I'd rather not go through 10 different potential coaches until I find one that works for me.

I will tell you what i tell anyone that asks this question. 

Finding a good coach that is a good fit for you, is like buying shoes.  If you're going to base your decision solely on name brand, style, what everyone else wears?  You run the risk of investing in something that isn't a good fit for you. 

You need to find a coach that is a good fit.  Not someone that is a hip...trendy...known...popular...etc. choice.

I guess what i am saying is...Dont base your decision on a coach simply because of a title, or rating they hold.  The best coach i ever had was a friend that is a Candidate Master.

 

 

 

Kind of what I expected. When I'm able to I'll investigate coaches. It won't be for awhile though, but thanks for the help. happy.png

mjharris77

Two probably stupid questions. Firstly, has a coach ever given up on a potential student? As in, they decided something to the extent of "I can't teach this person, they're hopeless!" Secondly, most of my live games I'd say are lost through blunders, which I often see not long after I make them (especially when they lead to loss of material), can coaches help with this or is it just something that comes with practice or whatever?

IMBacon
mjharris77 wrote:

Two probably stupid questions. Firstly, has a coach ever given up on a potential student? As in, they decided something to the extent of "I can't teach this person, they're hopeless!" Secondly, most of my live games I'd say are lost through blunders, which I often see not long after I make them (especially when they lead to loss of material), can coaches help with this or is it just something that comes with practice or whatever?

The few issues i have had, has for the most part been "parent interference"  Parents that think their kid is the next world champion when he barely knows how the pieces move. 

Reviewing your games, and good coaching will help fix your weak spots. 

But in the end, its still up to you.

 

mjharris77

Interesting. Are you a coach yourself? And I'm not arrogant at all in that regard. I'm 23 so don't suffer from parent interference as you call it. But I'm not delusional, I'd just kind of like to get good enough to play some good club matches so maybe 1600 rating or so.

IMBacon
mjharris77 wrote:

Interesting. Are you a coach yourself? And I'm not arrogant at all in that regard. I'm 23 so don't suffer from parent interference as you call it. But I'm not delusional, I'd just kind of like to get good enough to play some good club matches so maybe 1600 rating or so.

Yes i do coach.  If you're looking to be a good solid "club player"  Youre going to need to commit to at a minimum 90 minute a day to serious study.  Using a real board, and pieces do the following:

30 minutes: Tactics.

60 minutes: Solitaire chess - playing over GM games, trying to guess each move on the winning side after playing through the first 6-8 moves.

30 minutes: Videos, openings, endgames.

 

 

mjharris77

And I'm guessing the coach will help with giving which particular openings exercises and endgames etc? I'm intrigued by solitaire Chess, that sounds difficult and I've not heard of it before. The rest makes sense though. Though I will say that in general, not just with Chess, I don't seem to learn well from books. But that might be unavoidable.

IMBacon
mjharris77 wrote:

And I'm guessing the coach will help with giving which particular openings exercises and endgames etc? I'm intrigued by solitaire Chess, that sounds difficult and I've not heard of it before. The rest makes sense though. Though I will say that in general, not just with Chess, I don't seem to learn well from books. But that might be unavoidable.

If you're goals are to be a solid club player, I wouldn't waste the time or money on a coach. 

Here is what a former coach told me (He is Bulgarian. so forgive the grammar/language):

"You can work through these chess exercises and resources using the method I am going to outline for you below. Remember that it is especially important for you to work on a real board when you solve tactics or similar exercises.  That will help you to simulate the circumstances of a real game and certainly improve your tactical vision and active play a lot."

"

Here is the method you can use when studying:  
 
Try to train yourself with the games and positions from the books in the following manner:

Take the book and your 3D Chess Set with you. Then, choose some game from the book (My advice is to start with older ones, since they are very suitable for your level right now.) and notice the result of the game (since you should know who won it). After that, flip your chess board, so that you are on the side of the lost army. Then, take two sheets of paper and start reading. Go through the first 6 - 7 moves in the game (looking straight from the notation) and at the same time try to determine what kind of opening structure both players are aiming at. When you finish playing the first few moves of the opening, take the two sheets of paper and hide the moves of the player who won the game. Now, the point is to guess intelligently what move the winner did every time it is their turn. You should spend a couple of minutes for contemplating each move, during which you have to first analyze the current position in the game and consider the important continuations without moving the pieces on the board. Finally, you can suggest what the winner should play at this point and check your proposition with what the book says. Now you can move the pieces while looking at the arising position and the possible variations this new best move uncovers. This is a very good idea especially when you have not suggested the right move: then, try to figure out where you went wrong. Proceeding that way you will not only train yourself very effectively, but you will also learn very much from the moves and ideas promoted by the chess master in the game. As a rule, you should deliberately not rush through the moves very fast, or otherwise you will not gain any new skills and ideas from the game. Usually you are supposed to spend roughly about 90 minutes per game to review it effectively. This way of learning and training is very successful, so you can try it and let me know, if you have some additional questions concerning my method of studying from books."

 

 

mjharris77

Interesting, may I ask why you would advise not spending the time or money on a decent coach? For the record, I don't learned by self teaching or books as I said. I learn best when I get someone teaching me, who can see where I am getting it right or wrong, so that the teaching is tailored for myself.

IMBacon
mjharris77 wrote:

Interesting, may I ask why you would advise not spending the time or money on a decent coach? For the record, I don't learned by self teaching or books as I said. I learn best when I get someone teaching me, who can see where I am getting it right or wrong, so that the teaching is tailored for myself.

I only suggested not needing a coach based on your stated goals.  If you think a coach would be of more help, then by all means get one. 

 

mjharris77
IMBacon wrote:
mjharris77 wrote:

Interesting, may I ask why you would advise not spending the time or money on a decent coach? For the record, I don't learned by self teaching or books as I said. I learn best when I get someone teaching me, who can see where I am getting it right or wrong, so that the teaching is tailored for myself.

I only suggested not needing a coach based on your stated goals.  If you think a coach would be of more help, then by all means get one. 

 

Ah okay. Well I'm not sure of my exact goals. I would like to become competent at club level and play actual matches over the board, but other than the obvious goal of being the best I can be, I'm not sure. I'll think about it, right now I'm not currently able to afford a good coach unfortunately so this is currently merely hypothetical.

RonPaulsSteelBalls
mjharris77 wrote:

has a coach ever given up on a potential student? As in, they decided something to the extent of "I can't teach this person, they're hopeless!" 

This is what lesser men impose on their self. Seek potential 

mjharris77
#RonPaulsSteelBalls wrote:
mjharris77 wrote:

has a coach ever given up on a potential student? As in, they decided something to the extent of "I can't teach this person, they're hopeless!" 

This is what lesser men impose on their self. Seek potential 

Sorry I don't understand. Are you referring to myself here or the hypothetical coach?

SecretGm3

You seem not learn well from chess books. Statement of unwillingness to learn. A good chess coach is someone who has a vast knowledge  on chess books. Chess books that he tried himself. Bad coaches only base on book reviews from others. So student of any level won't waste their time training.