Anti-Dutch 2 Bg5"

Ozzie, I agree with what you have written - there are many authors who try to force lines.  Even some of the lines in Taylor's Bird's Opening book I have to take a grain of salt with...even lines in many different books.  But the ...d5 approach is a solid answer to White's response against Black.  I am not saying it is to every player's taste, but it works for me - it gives Black a chunk of space in the center, with room for maneuvering.  

I do think a Dutch player must have a good answer to 2. e4, 2. Bg5 and 2. g4.  Anything else gives him time to develop normally.  

Anthony, I just watched the video from Simon Williams you posted in #21.  Amazing - that is the game I have been referencing this whole time!  :-)  Like playing against From's Gambit, I think if Black knows his stuff, he can walk out of this variation (4. e4) with a playable position.  I believe 4. e3 is playable, but encourages Black to work on his pawn-roller he has already begun.  I have read two players (both stronger than me) question 4. e4, but my question is - what type of pressure does e3 put on Black?  Sure, it stifles ...f5-f4, but that isn't the end of the world.  ...f5 as a move does more than just threaten to crack the kingside.  It fights for e4.  And later, if Black can castle queenside (there is a nice win for Black in the database after 4. e3), he can push ...g5-g4, and even gambit a pawn or two to crack the kingside if necessary.  

Maybe we could propose a Hopton Attack tourney? 1. d4 f5 2. Bg5...

http://www.chess.com/games/view.html?id=1360086#

Here is an example of a game with 4. e3.  I feel that many of the moves are typical of the opening - early h4 met with ...g5, Black seeking for ...e5.  Black had a space advantage, White had piece development.  Interesting positions for sure...

Hi,

Not long ago I found lots of problems when facing the Dutch, and then a colleague told me about this tricky anti-dutch 2.Bg5. Well I have to say it really takes Black out of his normal plan, and even though we cannot say this gives White a clear edge, certainly it confuses Black, and the game won't follow the normal way Black would desire.

I just played it OTB in the Team League yesterday. I won after 19 moves, the Black king being trapped in the center of the board without castleing. After the game, we exchanged a couple of ideas, and my rival said he had no idea what to play after 2.Bg5. In fact he employed 40 minutes in the first 5-6 moves.

Bg5 is in my humble oppinion a very good way to meet the Dutch, and put pressure on the game from the very beginning.

Regards.

Yes, if Black is not prepared, he will get trounced quickly.  That is why we are reviewing this idea.  If I want to continue to play 1...f5 (which I do), I need to have a good answer.  I played 2. Bg5 against my computer yesterday, and it answered with 2...d5, opting for a type of Stonewall.  

http://www.chess.com/games/view.html?id=482150#

Here is a dogfight of a game with the Bg5 idea (reached via a Staunton Gambit) with ...c6 and ...d5 in the mix.  

That's the thing.  I think both sides need to know the ins and outs of these positions, especially if Black wants to definitely use 1...f5 against 1. d4.  If Black isn't prepared, he can easily get crushed by these lines.  If he is prepared, then I think it is still playable for him.  As I mentioned before, we are essaying 2...h6 right now to see if we like it 

I am going to continue to look in the game database, maybe find some wins for White that involve some of the ideas mentioned. 

http://www.chess.com/games/view.html?id=4385140#

A win by Malaniuk with the Black pieces after 1. d4 f5 2. Bg5 h6 3. Bh4 g5 4. e4 Nf6 (more of a mainline than Rh7!?) 5. e5 e6 6. exf Qxf with the bishop still trapped.  I am impressed with how playable he made the opening appear. 

http://www.chess.com/games/view.html?id=1157654#

Here is an entertaining win for White after Bg3 and e3.  

I am hunting through the games, but if Black knows his stuff, it seems he has equal chances for a win.  I am more and more impressed with 2...h6 the more I look into it.  e4 definitely puts the test to Black, but otherwise, the game gives both sides chances to develop in a variety of options.  

hmm I'm Dutch so I should be good at this... but I always lose if I play it:(

lol renegade!

i play gambit 1.d4 f5 2.g4!

2. Bg5 actually poses little problem if you know the variation.

Just continuing 2..g6 3...Bg7 is sound enough but if you want to enter into the spirit of this trappy line then 2..h6 3...c5!? is very hard for White to navigate succesfully if he is a sub 2000 club player.

My Hopton attack lines (best play by both sides) are as follows:

2. Bg5 h6 3.Bh4

3...c5?! 4. e4! Qb6 5. exf5! and winning as the pawn on f5 is a dagger thru the heart of Black's postion he can't get rid of. If white can't find these two moves then the position is at worst very playable for black, and he has a couple of nasty traps in store against White as mentioned in McDonald's book.

3...g6 is also perfectly payable for Black as given in McDonald's book, but I prefer

3..g5!

A) if 4. Bg3 (hoping Black will fall into the f4 trap) then ...d6.

5 e4 leaves the Bishop getting trapped by ...f4 later in many lines - the ...Rh7 move mentioned above gives White nothing and he also has nothing after 5. e4 Nf6 6.e5 e6 7.exf6 Qxf6 8.Qh5+ Qf7 9. QxQ+ KxQ 10. Bg3 f4 11.Bxf4 g5xf4=

so 5 e3 is better but then Nf6 6.Nc3 Rg8 8.h4 a6 9.hxg5 hxg5 10.be2 Qe7=

B) 4. e3 transposes back into the above line after ...Nf6 5.Bg3 d6

C) the other thematic try is 4. e4 (actually played against me in my last but one Blitz game). Best here for Black is ...Bg7 5.Bg3 and then either fxe4 or d6 are fine for Black.

The Staunton (2.e4) is a much better anti-Dutch try as is deferring the Bg5 move until move 3 as in 2.Nc3 Nf6 3.Bg5 IMHO.

thx for your invation ..

siapa nama anda karangtarunasemarang?

It's a sexy line as white but as black I play 2...g6, and if white wants to exchange on f6 he'd normally need to trade off a couple of pieces at f6.  2.Bg5 has some nice surprize value, just prepare for both 2...g6 and the 2...h6 lines where black gains kingside space. 

Or, why not simply play the best Anti-Dutch 1.d4,f5 2.Nf3,g6 (though this isn't forced perhaps 2...d6 waiting is best) 3.h4!,Nf6 4.h5,Nxh5 5.Rxh5,gxh5 6.e4! with a strong attack and more than enough compensation for the exchange.  White at least maintains a slight advantage. 

  "I play gambit 1.d4 f5 2.g4!"

Not bad, but what about a preliminary 2.Qd3!? first?  2...g6 then 3.h4! 2...d5 then 3.g4!,fxg4 4.h3,g3! though I can easily see myself from either side of the board here, but only played from the white side so far since the Manhattan is quite rare.  Even then the Bogo-Nimzo Indian complex is my main defense vs. 1.d4.  Catalan players (I am sometimes) usually find the Bogo-Indian irritating, but the reason I play it is natural moves are typically good and plans clear. 

This is known theory, yes :)

 A team mate of mine lost a shocker as black a few years ago. The moves were something like:

He never lives it down as we remind him of it every couple of months !

Thanks for showing me more ways this diagonal being weakened can hurt.

The original post does look tricky. My moves may not be theory so look for better.

4. e4 is risky (for both sides), but there is still a lot to discover there.