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Ngf3 in French Defense

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Narmi_Helas

 What is the best way for black to play against this variation in terms of winning chances?

 

 

But to be honest, I'm really just looking for a sound response against the Tarrasch Defense that offers black good winning chances.

UltraLaser

Well the right move on move 7 for white is Ne2, in order to be able to bring the other knight to the defence of d4 via f3. Therefore, if white plays Ngf3 then it makes sense to attack d4 with cxd4, Qb6 and then f6 to follow.

waffllemaster

The line you show is very sound.  If you don't like the locked center though you can try 3...c5 instead of 3...Nf6 which is a (the?) mainline.

waffllemaster

Oh yeah, that's right, and there's that funny gambit where white lets you have a d4 pawn.  I won a few games in a blitz tourney with that line once :p



UltraLaser
[COMMENT DELETED]
waffllemaster

I don't know opening names really :p

No, I've never played the Milner-Barry gambit, although I think I saw a game where Kasparov used it to great effect.

Narmi_Helas

Wafflemaster: 3...c5 is the open Tarrasch whereas 3...Nf6 is the closed Tarrasch.

The gambit in which you get the d4 is to my knowledge called the Korchnoi or Korchnoi-Nunn gambit.

To my knowledge, in that gambit the normally played move for white is 12.Qa4.

But my question is what line will give black equal winning chances?

UltraLaser

In my opinion there is not a good answer to that question, as all opening theory invoves black trying to get equal winning chances. So the only answer I can give is by playing opening theory, whether it be 3.Nf6 or 3.c5 theory.

Narmi_Helas

But that's the thing! When you go to 365chess.com you see neither giving black adequate winning chances but at best giving black huge drawing chances. See for yourself:

 

http://www.365chess.com/eco/C05_French_Tarrasch_closed_variation

http://www.365chess.com/eco/C07_French_Tarrasch_open_variation

SmyslovFan

The Milner-Barry is a very dangerous idea for white, but if Black is well prepared he should not fear it. This particular line is a main line of the Tarrasch and is slightly more favorable to white though.

For those who have said that White has made a mistake, they should know this has been played by Polgar, Christiansen, Navara and Ehlvest.

12.Qa4 is probably better than 12.Qe2.

Here's how the game may progress:

SmyslovFan

Here's an alternative for Black. Instead of an immediate Qb6, you can play cxd4 cxd4 f6 exf6 Nxf6 followed by Bd6.

It ended up badly for Ponomariov in the game below, but that was a blitz game against Carlsen. It's a difficult game, but Black probably isn't losing.

Narmi_Helas

After 7.Ngf3, 7...g6 can also be played according to the guy who wrote "The Flexible French". I think I'll go with that line. Thanks for all your help.

SmyslovFan

7...g6 as recommended by Moskalenko may be fine for an occasional over-the-board game, but I don't trust it for correspondence or a serious match against a well-prepared opponent. White can simply play h4-h5 and get a massive K-side attack. The classic game Smirin-Gurevich (2001) may give Black some hope, but White has found effective antidotes.

I just don't think 7...g6 is the best long-term solution for Black.

Narmi_Helas

Oh... okay. The line that pellik suggested looks promising too so I'll look into that and play that if someone plays the tarrasch against me. Thank you.

SmyslovFan

I just looked at your ratings. Every line we've discussed gives Black a playable game. Your problem is NOT the openings, it's tactics.

UltraLaser
SmyslovFan wrote:

I just looked at your ratings. Every line we've discussed gives Black a playable game. Your problem is NOT the openings, it's tactics.

Totally agree. You cannot blame losses and draws solely on an opening, instead practice tactics and positional problems, and your results will improve a lot more.

BattleManager

I don't think many players are accepting the Korchnoi Gambit nowadays. They tend to play stuff like Be7 + g5 or Be7 + a5.

FrenchOnly

There's a fairly counterintuitive but strong reply to the gambit, which involves the paradoxical transfer of the queen to d7 via a4.  

 
 
A good game to look at for this line is Ehlvest-Akobian 2009.