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Cobra_1878

Hey guys, is there an opening name for this;

I tried to make it so that the pieces move but I fail at technology.
Moves are 1.d4 Nf6 2. Nc3 d5 3. Bf4
Martin_Stahl

 

Up to Bf4 it is a transposition of D01: Queen's Pawn Game: Chigorin Variation.

Cobra_1878

How did you work out what opening it was?

I was googling and youtubing it trying to find someone using it and naming it.

Is there any obvious advantage to playing Bf4 over Bg5? Is this white fighting for control of the d5 square?

Cobra_1878

Is there a newbie forum anywhere on this site? I feel stupid asking some of these questions.

Martin_Stahl
Cobra_1878 wrote:

How did you work out what opening it was?

I was googling and youtubing it trying to find someone using it and naming it.

Is there any obvious advantage to playing Bf4 over Bg5? Is this white fighting for control of the d5 square?

I just played a bit with the move order and used the Game Explorer.  Don't know any of the theory since I've never really played those lines.

ThrillerFan

3.Bf4 is a bad move because it does nothing for White.  White has played 2.Nc3, already blocking his Queen's Bishop pawn after advancing his Queen Pawn two squares.  Typically, the purpose for this move would be to try to get in e4.  Black tries to prevent it a second time, whether that be via 1.d4 Nf6 2.Nc3 d5 or 1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 Nf6, and so 3.Bg5 is trying to put pressure on the Knight, trying to promote an e4 push.  Plopping the Bishp on f4 is useless here.  What are you trying to achieve?

After 1.d4, White would like to be able to play e4 as well and own the center.

After 1...Nf6, Black is saying "No - You can't have e4 as well"

After 2.Nc3, White avoids taking control of queenside space, and says "I want e4"

After 2...d5, Black again says No

Now after spending this time going for e4, why are we focusing on the e5 square with 3.Bf4?

 

It makes no sense, and hence why it has no name, because nobody's been dumb enough to attach their name to the creation of a system that makes little to no logical sense.

soupram

Could you go any further in the line?

Cobra_1878

Sorry guys, I was Black in this game, I should have switched the board around. I put this up because, initially, I couldn't see what White was trying to do with Bf4 and it completely threw me.

The game continued in this vein (I made a mistake on my next move I think);


Where do we go from here?

Cobra_1878

How do I put boards up where people can move the pieces using the arrows?

Move order; 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3 d5 3. Bf5 Nbd7 4. Nb5

Martin_Stahl
Cobra_1878 wrote:

How do I put boards up where people can move the pieces using the arrows?

Move order; 1. d4 Nf6 2. Nc3 d5 3. Bf5 Nbd7 4. Nb5

When you insert a board/diagram one of the options is to set up a Game or Sequence of Moves. Use that one and during that you create the moves.

There actually are three games in the Chess.com Game explorer from the position after Nbd7 (may possibly be more due to transposition possibilities though that may also be an error count).

I'm not absolutely sure but e5 is probably required after Nb5. The threat of losing the queen has to be handled. Kind of similar to the Two Knights Defense, Fried Liver Attack (in a King Pawn game), though without the knight blocking everything.

 

So maybe something like

but I'm not 100% sure. I'm not the strongest so maybe someone else will provide some input there.


Martin_Stahl

Just checked with Stockfish 5 and it likes 5... a6 best. Though Nh5 and c6 are its next two choices and the only ones that don't give white a large advantage (+-)

Cobra_1878

How would I use something like Stockfish? (I'm assuming it's a program that shows you the best possible moves?)

I don't understand those moves past 4...e5. What does ...Nh5 achieve? It doesn't stop Nxc7. Same for ...c6 and ...a6. They're obviously better moves than what I made so I would like to understand why they are.

Martin_Stahl

Engines can and will show you the better moves in most instances, though they are a little weaker in the openings. They should also only be used for study and post-game analysis.

I primarily just use them to find where I've made major errors and/or tactical oversights. I'm not strong enough to always understand why they see certain moves/lines better than others though.

As to how to use them, you have to have a GUI for them. I primarily use SCID vs PC, though there are other options out there.

After 4... e5 and 5. dxe5 the knight move attacks the bishop, which is blocked by its own pawn from attacking c7 anymore. Similar idea with the other moves. The e5 pawn is blocking access to c7 so a6 and c6 counter-attack white's knight on b5.

Cobra_1878

What's a GUI?

I see, we have no way of saving the Rook on a8 so the best we can do is compensate for it with Nxf4. That makes sense.

Martin_Stahl
Cobra_1878 wrote:

What's a GUI?

I see, we have no way of saving the Rook on a8 so the best we can do is compensate for it with Nxf4. That makes sense.

A GUI is a Graphical User Interface. Most engines don't have their own built in interface and just plug into other programs.

Your rook on a8 is fine. Look at the position more closely after e5 and dxe5. White doesn't have an attack anymore on the c7 pawn. Only one piece is attcking it currently due to the white pawn blocking the h2-b8 diagonal.

What move are you thinking white will do after Nh5, for example? Nxc7+ fails to Qxc7.

Martin_Stahl
drDuki2004 wrote:
Martin_Stahl wrote:

Just checked with Stockfish 5 and it likes 5... a6 best. Though Nh5 and c6 are its next two choices and the only ones that don't give white a large advantage (+-)

I have Stockfish 6:-)

I do too, just didn't have it on the machine I was at (and didn't want to go download it).

Cobra_1878

You're right Martin, I completely missed that the first time around and missed it again this time around. That's actually pretty annoying as I made the correct move with 4...e5 and then completely messed it up after that not realizing that the inital threat of Nxc7+ was no longer an actual threat.

Thanks for all the comments/feedback. It's been really helpful.

As for the GUI, I have one of those but I don't know how Stockfish works with it?

Martin_Stahl
Cobra_1878 wrote:

As for the GUI, I have one of those but I don't know how Stockfish works with it?

Most GUI programs allow you to configure engines to use. How you do it depends on the program.