Scotch vs Ponziani

Is the Scotch Game or Scotch Gambit better than the Ponziani? (regarding rating scores or even DISregarding them)   

Don't know the Ponziani but I do play the Scotch Gambit.  I'll track this one to learn something.  Thanks for the post.  Cheers.

Objectively, both the Scotch and Scotch Gambit are better than the Ponziani...and for that matter, they're better for practical play as well (I'd say the SG is the best practical weapon of the three), because White has to play very accurately in the opening to avoid simply being worse (EDIT : in the Ponziani)...IMO.

Scotch game is best.

As M_N noted Scotch gambit is difficult for black (i think he means black) to play against. But if black knows what hes doing he will probably have a slight advantage.

Ponziani is bad, though someone could be forgiven for thinking it was the best opening ever, considering how much attention it gets here.

They're all okay. Pick the one you prefer.

Don't play the ponziani, that is dubious opening. Play the italian game or ruy lopez, (in case you would want to play the ponziani) in those openings you will play c3-d4 later, but an early c3 is not so good. If you want to become a good chess player, you should not play dubious openings, but it is your choice.

There is a vote chess group which plays the Ponziani in vote chess.

They have played very good teams with players on some of the teams  rated master up to above 2400.

The Ponziani Team has a record of winning their last 13 team matches in a row with no draws or losses.  Many of these teams thought the Ponziani was a dubious opening.  It is easy to just say the Ponziani is dubious but the math chance of a Vote Chess Team winning 13 in a row is less than one in 100,000.

I have played the Ponziani for years. My record with the Ponziani playing experts and masters is approximately  80%. 

I am not saying the Ruy Lopez or Italian Game are bad openings. I am saying the Ponziani is much better than its reputation. 

It is easy just to say one opening is bad or one opening is good but better to back up what you say.

Here is a list of the 10 very best openings as per youtube chess stats

1. Queens Gambit  1. d4  d5  2. c4   win 41%  loss 25%  draw  34%

2 and 3 tie  Kings Indian Attack 1. Nf3  win 37% loss 23% draw 40%

2 and 3 tie  English Opening 1. c4  win 37%   loss  23%  draw 40%

4. Ruy Lopez   1. e4  e5  2. Nf3  Nc6  3. Bb5  win 40% loss 27% draw 33%

There is a tie for   5th and 6th and 7th place between The Ponziani and the 4 Knights Defense and the Giucco Piano with these stats

  5  6 7 Ponziani win 41%  loss 29%  draw 30%

 5 6 7 Four Knights  win 36%  loss  24%  draw  40%

 5 6 7  Giucco Piano  win 43%  loss 31%  draw  26%

8th place  Bishops Opening  1. e4  e5  2. Bc4  win 42%  loss 31%  draw 27%

tie for 9th and 10th places  

Blackmar Diemer Gambit 1. d4  d5  2. Nc3  Nc6  3. e4 win 47% loss 38% draw 15%  [most aggresive opening]

Benko Opening 1. g3   win 37%  loss 28%  draw  35%  

These are the 10 best openings for White out of dozens of chess openings.

There is not a single GM among the top ranked one hundred who uses the Ponziani regularly. Not one. If you can prove otherwise, I'll send you a trophy. Occasionally, a player such as Nepo or Carlsen may use the opening in blitz for its surprise value. Yet no elite GM uses it on a regular basis.

Furthermore, in the past fifty years, there was only one GM who played it regularly - Velimirovic. But between 1985 and 1997 he only scored 50% with it, according to my Big Database from ChessBase.

This is not to say that the Ponziani is total crap. It does have some redeeming qualities, such as

• a funky sounding name
• doesn't lose outright
• surprise value, especially in blitz
• relatively few lines to memorize

I suppose it's okay to play the Ponz below the GM level, just for the fun of it. But if you want to get to the top of the chess pyramid and become a GM, forget it.

Objectively all sound Openings [Which is about 90% of them] end in a draw with best play by both sides.

It is true that if you are a grandmaster or supergrand master you will probably play an opening such as the Ruy Lopez rather than the Ponziani Opening.  But think about it, How many of us are grandmasters or super grandmasters??

For Practical play for more than 99% of existing chess players the Ponziani gives good practical chances.  

If you want to become a grandmaster and have the potential to become a grandmaster then play the Ruy Lopez.  

The 13 vote chess teams were not surprised to play the Ponziani and they thought they were prepared for the Ponziani.

To ignore practical results of an opening is not fair at all.  To ignore stupendest results of an opening [13 games in a row in vote chess] is even more unfair. 

NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. NO. ABSOLUTELY NOT. Black has equality in the main lines, but certainly not more. And it's not a sterile equality either. Just ask Dzindi, who's probably (one of) the world's leading Scotch Gambit expert(s).

I think this is the answer for all "which opening is better?" topics.

The opening you are most comfortable with, is the best opening.

Yes, play the opening you are most comfortable with. The only reason I defend the Ponziani is  so many post anti Ponziani comments with no real basis at all.  They are probably repeating what they heard.

I think the English  1. c4  would be a great opening for me in the next life.

I have used it and I think have always won with it.

There are many players who love the Blackmar Diemer Gambit. The grandmasters and supergrandmasters will never play that opening.

But for 99% this is a fun opening and more power to them who play it!

Good that this comment came before the high priests of both cults invade the thread.

Seriously OP, you knew the trolls would feel the smell of blood, didn't you ?

i don't give a 2nd thought to trolls - just seriously wanted input from all on both openings.  i've already ordered Mr. Taylor's (Ponz111) book and will study it and will probably order a good Scotch book too. . . maybe a bottle of Scotch as well.  Thanks all.  

better just forget about those 2 books just buy a good bottle of Scotch instead. 

. . . yes and then head to Lake Taupo with it to escape what's coming in the US.  

Maybe you're right, though I don't consider Dzindi a great reference point. I've seen some of his videos and his analysis is missing some important lines, whether by laziness of simply to make his conclusions 'work'.

Using statistics without taking into account opponents strenght is laughable. Like using Youtube as reliable source.

It has been established that you are unable to prove any advantage for white in several lines. Despite of fact that your arguments (including "youtube statistics") are refuted, you are keeping to repeate them like a parrot. And you blocked me from posting in your Ponziani threads, after I unmasked your intellectual dishonesty.