Carlsen's unbreakable (?) record

Magnus Carlsen is not only reigning World Champion in classical, rapid and blitz, he is also the highest rated player in all three formats. In classical he has a lead with more than 60 points, in blitz with more than 90, while it's just over 5 points in rapid.

In classical chess his last fifteen round robins have all been very strong super tournaments, and he has won ten of them and finished second in the remaining five. During this period he has also played two title matches and won both, scoring the highest percentage (65) in a title match in more than a hundred years in 2013.

These achievements will not be easy to match for future top players. Just winning both the rapid and blitz World Championships in as strong (and rather short) events as they were the last time is very difficult even for the best players. Some players of the past may well have scored similar results if all these events and rating lists existed then, but doing it in the future will certainly not be easy.

No, breaking his record will not be easy but it will certainly happen.

No records stand for long in sports.

I remember when I was a kid, Bob Beamon broke the existing long jump record by something like two feet (more than half a meter).

World record progression for the Long Jump (men).

People argued whether or not the altitude had something to do with it. They said it would never be broken. Few ever even came close. At any rate, the new record stood for more than 23 years but was finally broken.

No record stands forever. 

Given that chess rapid and blitz ratings have just started to be recorded, there is no reason to believe that future world slow chess champions won't also be blitz and rapid champions.

Come back in 100 years and let us know.

I don't think he will be top#1 or world champion for as long as long as let's say Fischer or Kasparov.
There are too many competition for him.
And also, what notmtwain said in the above post. No record stays unbroken.

"Given that chess rapid and blitz ratings have just started to be recorded, there is no reason to believe that future world slow chess champions won't also be blitz and rapid champions"

It's difficult to win the rather short World Championships even for a player that is rated #1 though, for example the rapid World Championship had 8 of the players in the top 10 (as the blitz event) and numerous other top players, over only 15 rounds. To hold all three titles at the same time will probably be much more difficult than to "only" be rated #1.

"I don't think he will be top#1 or world champion for as long as long as let's say Fischer or Kasparov"

He has already been #1 longer than Fischer and will have been World Champion longer than him before his next chance to lose the title. Kasparov is something entirely different though...

You know what I meant by Fischer, no need to be technical about it.

"You know what I meant by Fischer, no need to be technical about it"

For how many years do you consider Fischer to have been the best player in the world before his retirement in 1972?

Fischer was a champion for 3 years at most. No match for Carlsen. He'll be champion for a decade.

I'm not really talking about his 'reigning years' technically, as the standard measurement of being dominant and top#1.
I'm simply talking about for how long he was influential and considered the strongest.
When Fischer lived, chess was about Fischer, everyday, everywhere, people were talking about him.
When Kasparov was dominant, chess was about Kasparov. Everyone knew them, everyone looked at them as the symbol of the game. Non chess players know them.
I don't see that with Carlsen.
I just don't think he will be as influential, as let's say those two.
He's not that much higher or different to his contemporaries as either Kasparov or Fischer.
But we could also go back a 150 years and say how Morphy was so different and played on a different level. Or Capablanca.
I don't see that with Carlsen.
I think he will be overthrown in a couple of years at most.

It's always easier to compare records that can be measured than those based on personal evaluations, but this summer Carlsen will have been World #1 for more than five years, and with a lead of more than 60 points it doesn't look impossible for him to stay there for a while longer. Since World War II few players have been best in the world for a period much longer than five years. Only Kasparov for certain, while Karpov reaches 7 1/2 years going by the Elo lists. Given that Carlsen just turned 24 a few months ago there is room to prolong his time as #1 quite a bit, but I don't think he ever will come near beating Kasparov's record.

notmtwain makes a good point about no record being for eternity.

Carlsen seems stronger than his current peers for sure, but I don't see him exerting the same kind of dominance as Kasparov yet.

To give an example of what I mean let me quote from Kasparov's wikipedia entry (yea I know it's only wikipedia, but still) :

"There was a time in the early 1990s when Kasparov was over 2800 and the only person in the 2700s was Anatoly Karpov."

So unless Carlsen can not only match, but exceed that kind of dominance, chances are one day a human will be born again with a talent for the game like Kasparov had, and will break any record Carlsen puts up in his lifetime.

It's just the way things are with humans, and a good thing too: without evolution there would be no improvement.

None of Carlsen's records in themselves are unbreakable, but this combination will at least be difficult to beat in a while:

Reigning World Champion in classical, rapid and blitz

#1 in classical, rapid and blitz

First in ten of the last fifteen top tournaments and second in the remaining five

Scoring 65% in a title match

But combining all these things is maybe a bit too constructed :-)

I see a nice comparison to Formula 1.

Capablanca was the first really dominant player, like Fangio was in 1950s. Then 30, 40 years passed, Fischer was very good, like Ayrton Senna, everyone praised both, but statistically they weren't the best. 10, 20 years further more, Kasparov literally crushed everyone, like Schumacher did in 2000s. They're both considered the best sportsmen in their sport, legends.

Now, we have young Carlsen and young Vettel. We will see if their records stay for so long.

Wow. Wasn't aware of this feat.

It's probably a bit underestimated how difficult such a string of results is, as chess looks at the top level today. Caruana is an extremely strong player and very deservedly World #2. Still he has finished last, seventh and last in his three latest tournaments. Scoring consistent top results year in year out is quite difficult.

Morphy dominated his contemporaries. Steinitz went undefeated in more than 25 years of match play and according to Chessmetrics achieved a bigger gap down to No. 2 than any other World Champion (199 points). Lasker was pretty much as consistent at achieving high finishes in tournaments as Carlsen, and Chessmetrics ranks him as the highest-rated player in the world for a total of 24.3 years, more than even Kasparov achieved.

Sorry, I meant Lasker, not Capablanca.

This forum is about Carlsens current records. You are confusing influence with the topic of how hard it will be for future players to match or break these records. Ones influence over the chess world is a different topic entirely.

I agree with others that records are meant to be broken. Yes, Carlsens current records are meteoric, but that does not mean that someone else will not come along and top them in 20, 50 or 100 years.

I also agree that it should be rather difficult. When we look at what Carlsen has done in such a short period of time (he is only 24yrs old) it is remarkably impressive. As of this post on 2/23/2015 there are only two people with an active classical rating in the 2800 level.

Caruana: 2802

Carlsen: 2862

When you look at Aronian who just two years ago was being hailed as one of the next potential WC challengers, and how far he has fallen you have to take stock at how hard it really is to be this strong, and maintain it. Nakamura has been in and out of the top 10. Caruana, So, and Giri are relatively new to the top 10. Carlsen has been there longer. 

What is really interesting is that Carlsen could potentially dominate for another 15 to 20 years. If, and I used the words "potential" and "if", he does, then his records will be staggering. Yet believe it or not still beatable, though difficult to do.

I can think of one sporting record that I dont believe will ever be broken . Dr Marion Tinsley's staggering record in checkers/draughts !  Over more than 40 years of competitive play he only lost 7 games and 2 of those to the super computer Chinook !  I dont believe any human will ever top that .