FirebrandX wrote:
However, the USCF does rotate around the USCF. As such, the OP will be going to a USCF tournament.
Firebrand wins. +2 points.
First USCF Tournament
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FirebrandX wrote:
I do remember facing players that would cover their hand over their scoresheet while they wrote the move down first. You know, like it's all secret and stuff. :-P
I use my whole arm, and then slide the scoresheet underneath the board where its safe.
I chuckle when they shield it... if I looked they might be trying to fool me. Or what if they change their mind and play something else? It's a bit dishonest too, I shouldn't know what they're thinking anyway. So I don't try to see it, and if I happened to see it I would ignore it.
I woudln't get the TD over it though.... hmm only time I remember getting the TD was after this teenager lost a pawn he was offering me a draw every move on my time. The TD came over to watch, but didn't even have to say anything, the kid saw me talking to the TD and got embarrassed and didn't say another word.
Estragon wrote:
FirebrandX wrote:
News to me, though it has been several years since I last played down in Dallas. Now of course, my point still stands for most of the country being USCF only tournaments. If you're not in one of the major cities like Dallas, you have to travel to them if you want a chance at FIDE events. Everywhere else is just your average swiss with TDs that don't care whether you write first, or move first.
Well, I don't know about the quality of the local TDs elsewhere, but in several regions I've played I found them very good about the rules when they were pointed out to them. Now if a TD hasn't purchased an updated rule book (USCF sells them, they aren't even online) for more than five years, maybe he isn't.
But I suspect those who don't enforce the rule just haven't had complaints. Many players don't know about the change, or never gave it any thought.
The most up-to-date rule book in effect, right now, is the 5th Edition. TDs are responsible for getting the updates from the USCF site (that I linked to earlier) to learn any changes in the rules (and one of them is that moves can be written down before the move).
I had heard that the 6th Edition is in the works but don't know when it is likely to be available. I had also heard that they may start making the rules available electronically, though I don't know how accurate that is.
Update, Round 2. My @ss was politely handed to me by a 2109 CM.
@satxusa: any round 2 details?
He played the Torre. What I did is an example of what not to do against the Torre or other d4 deviations, Colle etc... ie... I opened the e-file when I was behind in development, Castled kingside without a Knight on f6. And allowed him to sac his bishop on h7 (which I was waiting for) and I had to take it.
In retrospect, I should not have allowed the h7 sac to occur.., ( a simple 8. ..h6 or even later on h6 )..
After the dust settled, my king was very unsafe on h6 compared to his, who had three healthy pawns in front of it.
On move 8. I had a tactical theme in mind, where for a pawn I could possibly get rid of whites bishop pair, but I missed a move order where he could retain his bishops and have a better position to boot.. Again the theme I missed is that I should have kicked his bishop off g5 with 8. ..h6 protecting against the h7 sac and developing another peice with the tempo gained.
I obviously learned about good counterplay play against 1.d4 deviations (not allow h7 sac to begin with) and when calculating include 1. position 2. initiative and oh yeah 3. See move orders OTB other than what I want to see.
He played the Torre. What I did is an example of what not to do. Especially against the Torre or other d4 deviations, Colle etc... ie... I opened the e-file when I was behind in development, Castled kingside without a Knight on f6. And allowed him to sac his bishop on h7 (which I was waiting for) and I had to take it.
In retrospect, I should not have allowed the h7 sac to occur.., ( a simple 8. ..h6 or even later on h6 )..
After the dust settled, my king was very unsafe on h6 compared to his, who had three healthy pawns in front of it.
On move 8. I had a tactical theme in mind, where for a pawn I could possibly get rid of whites bishop pair, but I missed a move order where he could retain his bishops and have a better position to boot.. Again the theme I missed is that I should have kicked his bishop off g5 with 8. ..h6 protecting against the h7 sac and developing another peice with the tempo gained.
I obviously learned about good counterplay play against 1.d4 deviations (not allow h7 sac to begin with) and when calculating include 1. position 2. initiative and oh yeah 3. See move orders OTB other than what I want to see.
Yeah, I noticed that OTB I loked at the board and thought.... This looks like a win for white, after that even if I had prevented the bishop sac. White would win, by atrition unless he outright blundered. The pawn structure alone was winning.
That game was a real lemon on my part.
Lessons learned though. Lessons learned.
TALminator wrote:
FirebrandX wrote:
TALminator wrote:
U.S. Chess Federation rule 15A (modified October 2006) states:
"The player must first make the move, and then record it on
the scoresheet."
Read post #18 please.
I'm not sure where the statement 99.9% TDs allow this came from. TDs are required to follow the rules.
The rule was changed for people using a paper score sheet, You cannot put the move down first if you are using an electronic scoresheet. BTW I am a USCF TD.
Good stuff C!!!
The guy I am playing today plays the Sicilian which I have a decent amount of Alapin lines and middlegame experience against.
Good luck C!!!
To update my last post. The FIDE rule and the USCF rule is different regarding keeping score on paper scoresheet. I did not realize you were playing in a FIDE rated tournament. Sorry.
Can't say when they switched back, but the last two rules updates have the write first allowance. I'm sure someone out there keeps all the update files and can find out :D
Estragon wrote:
Martin_Stahl wrote:
Can't say when they switched back, but the last two rules updates have the write first allowance. I'm sure someone out there keeps all the update files and can find out :D
Does it not seem that an organization supposedly existing to promote and encourage chess play and competition would post their current rules online in their entirety?
I've heard that may actually happen at some point. My understanding is that it was decided that the USCF does have the electronic rights to the rulebook; the publishing rights are still with McKay.
I don't know if it will happen for sure though. Don't know what the thoughts were in the past to give exclusive rights to the printing company originally; maybe it was a cost thing. But they (and we) are living with that past decision.
I'm sure if they do make it available online they will still have a stipulation that TDs have to have the official printed version with them at tourneys.
Estragon wrote:
paulgottlieb wrote:
I'm sure that there's a good reason why FIDE decided to make it illegal to write down your move first, but I've never heard it. I always assumed that the main goal of FIDE in all circumstances is for the chess officials to make the game as unpleasant and unpopular as possible
Gijsson discussed this briefly this month, at least why he came to agree. Walking the rows at a tournament, he saw a player's scoresheet that had very many moves lined out and written over. While he didn't believe that player had an illegal intent, it was impossible to distinguish this behavior from taking notes which is specifically prohibited.
The USCF allows you to put your current move in on a paper scoresheet before the move, and erase or line it out if you change your mind. It explicitly states that excessive changes are not allowed. This rule has existed for many years. After the advent of eletronic scoresheets both USCF and FIDE determined that putting the move into the electronic scoresheet was not legal because you could then see the position with the new move and change it. (therefore you are using it like an analysis board). However USCF changed there rule after deciding that a paper score sheet did not constitute an analysis board. You do have to watch as some open sections of tournaments in the US are FIDE rated and thus subject to FIDE rules. You can get a copy of the differences between USCF rules and FIDE rules on the USCF website.
FWIW, I had an awkward experience at a FIDE rated tournament in England a few years ago where this "write move after touching piece" rule was applied and in fact enforced against me (it's a hard habit to break!). What I don't quite understand is why this rule exists in the first place, except perhaps if someone is constantly scribbling on their scoresheet in a particularly distracting manner, which to me seems like a behavior that could be classified under the larger rubric of "intentionally disrupting your opponent's concentration".
But without the USCF who would send me such fascinating emails as:
Dear United States Chess Federation member,
Your auto insurance is supposed to guard you every mile you drive ... every day of the year. But what if you're paying too much for protection that stops short if you're in an accident?
(and so forth)
USCF ?
United States Chess Federation...