Touch move question

If you're playing a game and forcing strict touch move rules, what happens if they write their move first and then touch the wrong piece?

you are allowed to write you move before or after unless using a handheld to keep notation, so it only matters what piece you touch. writing down a move does not commit you to that move

You're not allowed to write down your move before making it, at least not under FIDE rules. It's regarded as a form of note-taking.

Really? I think it may depend on who runs the tournament since atleast in the US some rules change slightly depending on who runs it. In the tournemaments I have been to it does not matter unless your opponent makes an issue out of it

If it is possible to write your move before moving your piece, surely the touch move rule ceases to have an effect. How can it be argued you touched the piece with the intention of moving it if you have a different move written down?

But then that allows the loophole of moving pieces and looking at the new position and then moving them back.  All you'd have to do is write down an absurd move like Kh1 and then erase it when you're ready to make your real  move.

Touch move is a good rule.

Because intentions can change, often as I intend to make one move I am forced to rethink my move as I am about to make it. Perhaps it is just me, but rarely do I end up making the first move I intend to. The touch move rule is basically making your final decision.

What you have written on the scoresheet does not serve as evidence of intention. Rather, it is the solely about the manner in which the piece is touched. If you grab the piece firmly and pick it up, clearly you intend to move it. If you bump it with your elbow as you reach across the board, clearly you had no intention of moving it. In between cases are why we have TD's and arbiters. 

As for when you can write the move down:

Under FIDE rules you are permitted to write the move before you play it. 11.1 of the FIDE Laws of Chess clearly states, in part: "It is irrelevant whether the player first makes his move oand then records it, or vice versa."

Under USCF rules, the move must be played first. This is noted in 15A.

Thanks for the info! I have yet to be at a USCF tournament that enforces that, but it is a good habit to get into I am sure.

Ummm, the FIDE rule is that you have to record the move, and that you can do so either before or after the move. Read rule 11.1. I quoted the relevant sentence just two posts up thread from yours. 

Perhaps you meant to type USCF? 

As this thread shows the rules are not consistant and/or they are not enforced consistantly.

What if you're playing online blitz and you click a piece, but realize it's a bad move: do you feel morally inclined to make your blunder move so you can sleep well at night, with a clear conscience? ;)

Just kidding, of course.

No idea where you're getting this from. Here's a link to the FIDE laws.

http://www.fide.com/component/handbook/?id=124&view=article

8.1 specifically says you cannot write the move down in advance (11.1 is to do with the scoring system, nothing to do with writing the moves down).

Interesting. It appears my printed copy is grossly out of date. 

The most current USCF Rule 15A that I'm aware of lists a Variation I for paper scoresheets, which I interpret to mean that the TD can allow someone to write the move first. See page 10 of this document:

http://www.uschess.org/docs/gov/reports/RulebookChanges.pdf

That makes sense, and from experience I would say many TDs allow it. Perhaps for more exclusive top ranked tournaments they do not allow it, but I have no experience with those haha

Seems to be more natural to me to record the move afterwards anyway. You avoid having to correct the record if you revise your move and you don't use your own time this way.

In my club there's every second week someone who unintentionally drops his king

I've been told that many scholastic players in the U.S. have long been taught to write down the move first, mostly as an attempt to try to prevent the players from making rash moves without thinking. (I don't really agree with this philosophy, but then I've never had to teach scholastic players. )

When Rule 15A first came out, it required the player to move first, no exceptions. However, this rule change was in direct conflict with a long history of scholastic instruction, and many TDs simply refused to enforce Rule 15A. So, the USCF Rules Committee had to go back to the drawing board and create a revision that everyone could live with.

FIDE and USCF are two different organizations!

FIDE rules state that you must make the move, and only then write it down.

USCF is a little trickier.  If you are using a Monroi, or any other electronic scoresheet, you MUST make the move first and only then write it down.  If you are using a paper scoresheet, you can write down the move and then make the move.  You can not, however, continuously write down moves, make crossouts, and make other moves.  You also can not take notes.

For example (USCF, this is all illegal in FIDE):

White writes e4 - White pushes e4, Black writes e4 e5, Black pushes e5, White writes e5 Nf3 - White pushes Nf3, Black writes Nf3 Nc6, Black pushes Nc6, White Writes Nc6 Bc4, thinks for 2 minutes, White pushes Bc4, Black writes Bc4 Nf6, thinks for 5 minutes, Completely blacks out Nf6 and Writes Bc5, puts a slash thru Bc5, writes Be7, Black pushes Be7, White writes Be7 O-O (Intending d4) and Castles.

- White's e4 action is legal
- Black's e5 action is legal
- White's Nf3 action is legal
- Black's Nc6 action is legal
- White's Bc4 action "technically" is not legal, but there's no real way to enforce it as long as he's actually making the first move written every time - it's like proving he said she said cases.
- Black's Be7 is illegal.  Some directors that don't enforce rules well might allow the complete crossout of Nf6, but no director should EVER allow a simple crossout of Bc5 where Bc5 is still visible on the scoresheet.
- White's O-O (Intending d4) is EXTREMELY ILLEGAL, clearly flat out notes of what he plans to do, and writes himself a reminder.  Just as illegal is to put alternative options as while you already made the move you made, that same move might become useful later, and you might be like "Oh, what about that Nd7 idea I thought about earlier that I have written there at move 7?"

On a completely separate note, there's an idiot at the chess club I play at in Charlotte who joined maybe 3 or 4 months ago, and thought that because he was the highest rated (by maybe 20 points over the next highest at the time), that he could just bully everybody, and make them think that these rules exist when they don't.  I faced him back in the fall, and he played 1.e4.  I then pushed 1...c6, and wrote down e4 c6 on the scoresheet.  He pushes 2.d4, and I proceed to push 2...d5 and then wrote 2.d4 d5.  He tries to tell me that I have to write down his d4 move before I make my move, which is not true at all.  I most of the times do that, but if my response is immediate (i.e. Opening moves, only legal move while in check, etc., I'll make my move first and write both moves then).  Nothing anywhere says that's illegal.

He's tried to pull other forms of semantics on other players as well figuring he could bully people simply because he's the highest rated.  Well, alas, he and one other now toggle between highest and second at the club.  I'm somewhere around 5th right now at 2058.  And needless to say, this fool that thinks he so great drew that game above where I played the Caro-Kann, and since then, I've faced him two other times.  Beat him with White by playing 1.g3, and Crushed Him like a bug last week on the Black side of a Vienna Gambit.  See the link below:

http://www.charlottechess.com/games2/1123.htm