Yes, it's a draw because you must have sufficient mating material to force mate.
Resolved: Erroneous draw?
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Huh, I didn't know that. I thought when your time runs out, that's that, you lose.
Are these the standard rules? I think some of my offline games with friends we may have been using incorrect rules if so
Here's the PGN, btw
[Event "Live Chess"]
[Site "Chess.com"]
[Date "2010.12.13"]
[White "demette"]
[Black "Mijin"]
[Result "1/2-1/2"]
[WhiteElo "1337"]
[BlackElo "1341"]
[TimeControl "10|0"]
[Termination "Game drawn - insufficient material"]
1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.d4 exd4 4.Nxd4 Nxd4 5.Qxd4 b6 6.e5 Bc5 7.Qd5 Rb8 8.Qd3 Bb7 9.Be3 Bxe3 10.Qxe3 Qe7
11.Nc3 Nh6 12.O-O-O Ng4 13.Qg3 Nh6 14.Qxg7 Qf8 15.Qxf8+ Kxf8 16.Rxd7 Ng4 17.Rxc7 Nxf2 18.Rg1 Ng4 19.h3 Nxe5 20.Be2 Kg7
21.Bh5 Rhc8 22.Re7 Ng6 23.b3 Re8 24.Rc7 Re5 25.Be2 Rf5 26.Bd3 Rf2 27.g4 Nf4 28.Bc4 Nxh3 29.Rg3 Ng5 30.Nb5 a6
31.Nd6 b5 32.Nxb7 bxc4 33.Nd6 cxb3 34.axb3 Rf1+ 35.Kb2 Ne6 36.Rc6 Ra8 37.Rgc3 a5 38.Nf5+ Kf6 39.Rc8 Rxc8 40.Rxc8 Rf4
41.Ne3 Nd4 42.Nd5+ Kg5 43.Nxf4 Kxf4 44.Rc4 Ke3 45.Ra4 Ne6 46.Rxa5 Kf4 47.Ra4+ Kg5 48.c4 Nf4 49.c5 Ne6 50.c6 Kf6
51.Ra6 Ke7 52.b4 Nc7 53.Ra7 Kd6 54.b5 Nxb5 55.Rxf7 h6 56.Rh7 Kxc6 57.Rxh6+ Kd7 58.g5 Ke7 59.g6 Kf6 60.Kb3 Kg7
61.Kb4 Nc7 62.Rh7+ Kxg6 63.Rxc7 Kf5 64.Re7 Kf6 65.Re1 Kf5 66.Kc4 Kf6 67.Kd5 Kf5 68.Rf1+ Kg4 69.Ke4 Kg5 1/2-1/2
Thanks.
But now you've made it easier for people to see 61...Nc7??
Thinking about it, I could see why there might be a rule that this is a draw...white doesn't need to make any moves. If white could press a button and instantly make a random move, they'd be guaranteed a draw by repeatedly pressing the button. So you can make a case for calling it a draw.
Dec 13, 2010
0
#6
NJH: A rook and a king is sufficient material, but a lone king is not, so a draw is the correct result here.
According to official rules, if one player runs out of time and the other player could not possibly perform a checkmate under any legal sequence of moves, the game is ruled a draw. Put more simply, Mijin: your opponent couldn't win because he ran out of time and you couldn't win because you didn't have sufficient material. Since neither player could win, a draw was the result.
Doh...and 24...Re8??
*two* occasions I could've won a rook.
I was tired...I'd had a long day...it happens to all guys from time to time...
Mijin wrote:
Hi
After a drawn out endgame all that is left on the board are the two kings and a rook belonging to my opponent. Fortunately, my opponent has just seconds to mate me, and fails, hes clock goes to 0:00.
However, the message box then says "Draw by insufficient material"
Does it adjudicate such situations as a draw?
N.B I didn't take the rook, and the game in my records shows a rook still on the board and my final move as Kg5 (i.e. no "x")
A draw is the correct outcome. Your opponent ran out of time, and you only had a King. If you had a pawn and your oppnent ran out of time then you would have gotten a win.
Well, makes sense. Think I might have made the wrong ruling on one or two "real-life" games, but at least now I know.
Thanks all.
Mijin wrote:
Hi
After a drawn out endgame all that is left on the board are the two kings and a rook belonging to my opponent. Fortunately, my opponent has just seconds to mate me, and fails, hes clock goes to 0:00.
However, the message box then says "Draw by insufficient material"
Does it adjudicate such situations as a draw?
N.B I didn't take the rook, and the game in my records shows a rook still on the board and my final move as Kg5 (i.e. no "x")
You have insufficient material to checkmate. You cannot win.
http://www.fide.com/component/handbook/?id=124&view=article
Rule 6.9 "Except where one of the Articles: 5.1.a, 5.1.b, 5.2.a, 5.2.b, 5.2.c applies, if a player does not complete the prescribed number of moves in the allotted time, the game is lost by the player. However, the game is drawn, if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.".
El_Senior wrote:
CPawn wrote:
Mijin wrote:
Hi
After a drawn out endgame all that is left on the board are the two kings and a rook belonging to my opponent. Fortunately, my opponent has just seconds to mate me, and fails, hes clock goes to 0:00.
However, the message box then says "Draw by insufficient material"
Does it adjudicate such situations as a draw?
N.B I didn't take the rook, and the game in my records shows a rook still on the board and my final move as Kg5 (i.e. no "x")
A draw is the correct outcome. Your opponent ran out of time, and you only had a King. If you had a pawn and your oppnent ran out of time then you would have gotten a win.
King and pawn vs King is not always a win. Depends on the position. Accurate play is also helpful.
The rule states that if checkmate from your opponent is possible via any series of legal moves then the game is a loss when you time out. Otherwise, as was the case here, a draw is declared.
They don't have to be good moves -- helpmates count.
Yes, I think that chess.com has a simplified implementation of this rule that is not 100% accurate. Not so much a bug as a known limitation.
erik wrote:
i think we're going to do:
K vs ANYTHING
K+N vs ANYTHING
K+B vs ANYTHING
K+N+N vs K
i think it's a good balance.
From this thread:
http://www.chess.com/forum/view/help-support/no-mating-material--draw
As the rule is written, K+P vs K is a draw when the K+P side times out, and a loss when the K side times out regardless which pawn it is or any other considerations.
Best play, such as the opposing getting to the queening square of a rook pawn, is not considered, only whether there's a series of legal moves that lead to mate.
Ahh, fair enough -- excluding time outs it can be any pawn, really, depending on who has the opposition.
Rather than start a new thread in quick succession, can anyone help me out please with what happened here?
In this game I blundered my queen away midgame but thought I had saved the game when I found perpetual check. Unfortunately, no draw was declared, even though we repeated several positions more than 3 times. All the time I was clicking away at the "draw" button, and nothing happened. Eventually I lost on time.
What gives?
Oh, and the perpetual check begins from move 43
Ah, I've just read the help + support.
According to that, I have to hit draw while it's my opponent's move. I can't be sure that that's what I did: maybe I kept hitting it on my turn only.
Just to say though: I think that's a weird way of doing it. If my opponent is sufficiently fast, I won't get a chance to claim a draw?
Mijin wrote:
Ah, I've just read the help + support.
According to that, I have to hit draw while it's my opponent's move. I can't be sure that that's what I did: maybe I kept hitting it on my turn only.
Just to say though: I think that's a weird way of doing it. If my opponent is sufficiently fast, I won't get a chance to claim a draw?
Correct. Your opponent can negate your correct claim by moving, especially through premove or conditional move, before you can click the button. http://www.chess.com/forum/view/suggestions/correct-draw-claiming
Hi
After a drawn out endgame all that is left on the board are the two kings and a rook belonging to my opponent. Fortunately, my opponent has just seconds to mate me, and fails, hes clock goes to 0:00.
However, the message box then says "Draw by insufficient material"
Does it adjudicate such situations as a draw?
N.B I didn't take the rook, and the game in my records shows a rook still on the board and my final move as Kg5 (i.e. no "x")