2018 WCL: Division 2

Isnt it a draw?

A team that does not reach the player minimum in time, loses the match by forfeit. This is irrespective of the situation of the opponent.

If a team loses a match, some other team sould win that match.

Orelse its a draw.

The "irrispective" is an opinion, not a rule.

Or we have a new rule!

We also have the rule #4 that says:

"..The match can be started with less players than required. In this case the complete team gets 2 bonus points for each lacking player. (To start the match with less players, both teams need to lock their rosters.)

If both teams fail to register the required number of players, the responsible WCL admin will take an ad hoc decision in the spirit of the rules in the previous bullet point."

So we have a rule that says that a match with less players than minimum is possible to start and the rule doesnt specify when the roster must lock.

And also that if both teams fail to register the required number of players, they dont have to lose both in any case, but it is an "ad hoc dicision" of the WCL Admin.

For all these reasons I claim WIN for Team Thessaloniki (even if we reached the 12+ after deadline) or I ask from WCL Admin to count the match as a draw, at least!

https://www.chess.com/clubs/forum/view/locking-the-registration-in-daily-team-matches

Round 1: Thessaloniki and Burgas agreed to start the match with delay. It's results is counted for the WCL.

If this decision is ok with the rules ("ad hoc decision" by admin), I'm ok too (because it's reglamentary)

But, please think that this is a competition with promotions and SIX relegations, and now two teams that were going to have 0 points have the chance to have 0,5 or 1.

I'm sorry with Burgas and Thessaloniki, I haven't any personal issue with that teams, but all the others teams have acomplished the start date and minimum number of players on time. I hope at the end of the season we don't have to discuss about any unfair promotion/relegation.

Where were you all these days that we duscusssed this problem of the interpratation of a rule?!

My team locked first and now we are playing against very strong players of the opponent team.

I had no problem with the DRAW dissision but i think that it is not possible to lose both teams in one game.

If my team finally relegates because we lost this match and Burgas won this 1 point, I accept it.

Finally, what is the problem, the time line or the minimum players? I ask this because there is a rule that says "The match can be started with less players than required". If we lock with less players but on time its OK? Is there any penalty there?

Anastasios, you started the discussion three weeks later than the official start of the match! I had nothing to say because it's a RainPiper decision and I didn't want to influence him. 

The decision have been taken now, I just hope this type of irregularities won't repeat in the future. Or maybe you think this is the correct way and want to do as you wish the rest of the season?

And... where were you when this was announced, 23 days ago?

 Some clarifications:

• @Anastasios: 0-0 is an established possible result in the WCL (as in other team leagues) and will continued to be applied in cases in which neither team meets the requirements.
• @pancho2015: We have this principle in the rules: "The board will let its decision be guided by the principles of inclusion (make matches happen!) and fair play." -- So whenever it's possible to make a match happen (as with Thessaloniki vs Burgas), we'll support this.
• The general problem with the current version of the rules is that they were set up in a period when it was possible to lock the teams' registration with less than the minimum number of players. Unfortunately, this has been changed by chess.com, so some of the bullets in the rules are obsolete now. We hope that chess.com will return to the previous situation (see link in #24), but this is not certain.

I havent started any discussion. I just claimed win for my team because my team had 12+ palyers and the other team didnt.

You didnt want to influence him?!

And now why you talk?!

I think that all the matter is my last comment:

"Finally, what is the problem, the time line or the minimum players? I ask this because there is a rule that says "The match can be started with less players than required". If we lock with less players but on time its OK? Is there any penalty there?"

I could have started the match on time but with less players.

I hope we have a new more specified rule in the future.

#19

I talk now because I want this doesn't happen again. 

As a new rule we can add a maximum time to claim for a result, for example a week after the announce of a forfeit.

Rules are adjusted for the new situation with team registration:

• Due to technical changes in chess.com, it is currently not possible for teams to lock their registration with less than the player minimum. Therefore the rule is simply: A team that does not reach the player minimum at the scheduled date, loses the match by forfeit.

See https://www.chess.com/clubs/forum/view/2018-wcl-rules

I am not absolutely sure but I was told that in new edition it is possible to lock with less players than it was aranged.

Is it OK to lock with less players if both teams agree that, before deadline?

The problem is the minimum players, the time line or both?

Let me give you an example:

my team couldnt reach the 12+ but doesnt have problem to play with any minimum or with no minimum.

The other team, althought they havent acheaved to reach the min.players too, dont agree to play with less before the deadline. Then what must happen, 0-0?

It is impossible to lock registration with less players than the minimum. So it does not make sense to discuss these cases.

https://www.chess.com/clubs/forum/view/locking-the-registration-in-daily-team-matches

@Anastasios:

With  respect I think you are mixing two different topics. 

a) We can discuss about the minimum of players and about the deadline. I understand there are some teams with problems to get this minimum. I don't need to look so far away: my team, Berlin, had really difficulties to get the minimum on time last year, starting several matches with less players or delayed. Comparing the situation, this year RainPiper has announced several times the irregularities of match before the match: Thessaloniki (6/12), Burgas (5/12) on 13th Nov; Burgas (5/12), Thessaloniki (9/12) on 15th Nov., and later Thessaloniki - Burgas 0-0, one day later of beginning. 

I see you made a big effort those last days to get the minimum of players, and maybe Burgas didn't. I don't know. But RainPiper applied the rules, strictly, maybe; but you must be thankful that you can start a match (and with the possibility to win) practically one month later. As Pancho told, it can be dangerous for the future. I remember the old times of Anastasakis when sometimes forfeit was one week after the beginning, sometimes three months. This one it was very arbitrary and unfair.

I prefer to lock my roaster on time, if we can't get it, maybe we are in the wrong category. Berlin refused to play on 1st division of ECL two or three years ago for this reason. 

b) Otherwise it's about forfeit. I think you don't understand the concept and it seems you don't often play chess in  in competitions in the real life. When both players or both teams don't go to the match BOTH lose (-- or 0-0), usually with economical and other penalties as well.  2nd forfeit usually means to be disqualified of competition. And this rule is practically in all sports I know. Imagine in football that Spain doesn't want to play against Portugal in the World Cup next year. Neither does Portugal. What do you think it will happen? Both get 0.5 points or both are automatically disqualified?  

a) i.If my team wins it would be a miricle as I can see by the ratings

ii. There is a rule that says "The match can be started with less players than required".

b) I have never played in chess competitions but I know that there are countries that dont recognize other countries and refuse to play against their teams f.e. Greece against FYROM if FYROM tries to use our name "Macedonia" or many muslim countries against Israel because they dont recognize Israel.

I never heard of double refuse of match!

WCL2018 R3: Grad Niš-City of Nis vs. Team Prishtina

WCL2018 R3: Team Odessa vs Team Burgas https://www.chess.com/groups/team_match?id=857970