4pc team pin system not correct!!!

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Avatar of diduseethatcomeing

in recent few games i feel these that 4pc pin system is not correct

we all should understand basic rules of normal 2player chess is player have to move his king when he is in check   or in next move his king dead so that y it is simply when there is cheak player got to move his king that simply rule is made

but in 4pc its not necessary  these can be really confusing let me gave example

these is not real game based made up for example 

its red to play

null

[StartFen4 "R-0,0,0,0-1,1,1,1-1,1,1,1-0,0,0,0-0-14/14/14/7,yK,6/6,yQ,5,rB,gK/1,bB,12/14/bK,bR,12/14/14/14/14/14/6,rK,7"]
[Variant "Teams"]
[CurrentMove "0"]

 

let assume 1st case

yellow to play

null

(green  is pin)  red bishop move  then blue bishop pin then  yellow queen take the green king (and red bishop  can  pin stop yellow check  if green was alive yellow queen can stay alive  with sacrifice partner pieces.)

 

2nd case is also similar  

null

 if blue rock check yellow red bishop  can pin in between and stop yellow king to die  and yellow   can move freely 

 

condensing  these point  for improvement in 4pc rule system 

i think should allow player to play anything else  even he is in check

 

 

Avatar of BabYagun

Please provide PGN4 with moves, like:

[StartFen4 "R-0,0,0,0-1,1,1,1-1,1,1,1-0,0,0,0-0-14/14/14/7,yK,6/6,yQ,5,rB,gK/1,bB,12/14/bK,bR,12/14/14/14/14/14/6,rK,7"]
[Variant "Teams"]
[CurrentMove "2"]

1. Bm10-j7+ .. Bb9-d7

 

And please try to explain again, using different words. Try using Google Translate perhaps.

 

P.S.
Blue, not Bule.

Avatar of diduseethatcomeing

not sure what u missing i will try again

right now blue pin the yellow queen  with bishop consider these yellow queen moved some where then green turn ..  red turn... he did nothing.. blue. bishop taken yellow king blue green won

 

same thing red did something these time

consider these yellow queen moved some where then green turn ..  red turn... he block with bishop pin to stop blue eating yellow king and yellow queen is saved these is somewhat pin piece replacement 

 

yellow taking green king so blue check or pin do not make any sense because blue turn never will come to eat yellow king 

current rule is stopping yellow to move his queen  

sorry for bad English 

Avatar of scooterV

You should be staff, diduseethatcomeing, you are good about these things

Avatar of BabYagun

You can compensate English level by showing us the moves. I showed the start:

1. Bm10-j7+ .. Bb9-d7

You can then show other move(s) and tell something simple like: Now it is allowed. Now it is not allowed. It should be allowed.

Maybe you offer something important, I don't know. But it is very difficult to understand, unfortunately, and you don't even try to use Google Translate. For example:

"do not make any scenes" is a nonsense. With Google Translate you can easily correct it to "do not make any sense". Show some respect to the readers, check you text before you post it. I believe that in any language "scenes" and "sense" have different meaning.

 

 

Avatar of BabYagun

You should be staff, diduseethatcomeing, you are good about these things

If you understood his idea, be so kind, explain it.

Avatar of spacebar

you wan't any pinned piece to be free to move unless the "pinner" is next to move?

note that this will change the definition of checkmate too as checkmate = in check + no legal moves.  in the 2nd picture say yellow was in checkmate. yellow now doen't care about pinned pieces and moves the queen to stop the checkmate, and the game goes on.

Avatar of spacebar

or you only want to allow getting out of pins to delivater mate to the player to your left?

Avatar of diduseethatcomeing

before understanding not get confuse simply rule made in 2 player there only 2 turn so check mean next move his king is capture if he not move his king 

mean  these keep in mind  very basic rule of chess. game is not over until king is capture or dead and 1st person doing that is wining. continue even after check or checkmate till the person capture 1st king 

4pc here u r partner is there to block or break the checkmate supported until king is finally capture  

 

Avatar of username_noob

2nd case is also similar  

null

 if blue rock check yellow red bishop  can pin in between and stop yellow king to die  and yellow   can move freely 

 

condensing  these point  for improvement in 4pc rule system 

i think should allow player to play anything else  even he is in check

 

Team variant?

If it is, then I do not see any wrong with the pin system..

 

If the yellow queen is checking the green king and if the red's bishop moved in front of the green king, it will stop the check.. and the game moves on

 

I don't understand..

Avatar of username_noob

Also it is yellow's turn. So he will have to move his king or use his queen to stop the check ( obviously no)

Avatar of username_noob

I think you got confused with the check here, didyouseethatcomeing.

Avatar of GustavKlimtPaints

The way it is currently implemented is that, if you are in check on your turn, you must deal with it instantly; that is the most logical way to implement it in my opinion, because if you changed it to your partner being able to deal with it for you, it would really obfuscate things. It would be a different implementation, but in my opinion, not better, but worse.

Avatar of username_noob

half.png

Avatar of spacebar

the problem with partner getting you out of checkmate is you don't have a move!

what's been discussed for ffa in some thread: an exception, meaning that the server checks all your moves and if you can, for example, get out of check by mating the player that is checking you, then that be legal. for teams i guess this is would mean yellow can capture the king despite being pinned in pic 2 (but not in ffa, unless a green bishop was pinning the q.).

i'm not sure how much this would change the game. for sure it's a ton of extra work for the server (checking the resulting position for every possible move on every move..)

Avatar of username_noob

So that means in different cases, they are different! 

Avatar of BabYagun

> ... for sure it's a ton of extra work for the server (checking the resulting position for every possible move on every move..)

If we will allow players to ignore checks, the server load should not increase. Imagine that a yellow rook checks green, green ignores the check and makes some move (he can even move his king towards yellow rook checking his king  ). Then red makes some move. Now 2 things can happen:
1. Either blue will protect green king (capture yellow rook, place a piece between yellow rook and green king, or capture/checkmate yellow king).
2. Or yellow rook will capture green king.

The server load will increase only if the server will check/predict the moves. But we can leave it as it is.

Avatar of diduseethatcomeing

>...the problem with partner getting you out of checkmate is you don't have a move!

if  we apply game go on till capture the king (and player can ignore check) then in case of checkmate king will capture pieces that is check him and in next move supporting piece can capture back the king

and because of that one extra turn is added my partner can save me that also mean that u r checkmate should be stable (supporting pieces should not be any threaten ) these will change way of attack more like to be will go for stable attack i guesstongue.png

Avatar of respecthebish1

https://www.twitch.tv/videos/411261659. skip to 2:20:15. One of the rare cases where we could've taken advantage of the current rules. As u can see i tried convincing my opponent to leave my king exposed because red had to respond to check before he can capture my king.

Avatar of respecthebish1

*teammate