Yes, BG are a bit more flexible. This setup is not that different from the omatamis, I hope that this setup will last shortly and that we can switch to a better one...
A new setup proposal: BYG switch.
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At_d0sA_fNLt_Laris wrote:
Yes, BG are a bit more flexible. This setup is not that different from the omatamis, I hope that this setup will last shortly and that we can switch to a better one...
Wouldn't really agree, developing queens for BG is by far not as advantageous as in omatamix, and RY in higher level games may still be stronger. I suggest you really take a thorough look on the testing games... Plus, take a look at the spreadsheet, i.e. all the materials attached.
Jun 9, 2022
0
#4
@bsrti Mirrored Symmetry for RY and Rotational Symmetry for BG. I like this twist. If someone wants to try out this MiRo Setup, how does one make the game? Is there a preset, and is castling bugged on the preset?
Jun 9, 2022
0
#5
JustinD7 wrote:
Sounds great but how do we test it. The current lobby system is messed up. If you click Brsti which I have wanted to test, the game seek can only be seen by players who are already in the Brsti section, unless they have enabled 'show all variants' where I believe the seek can now be seen but this includes all 2pc variants as well. Why not have all 4pc seeks including 4pc variants in the 4pc lobby where they can be specifically filtered.
So hopefully this can be improved and we can test such setups. There is a problen with omatamix in that green is in big trouble if blue does not play actively in the opening. So we should be looking for improvements whether this is with casual arena testing or improving the lobby system so we can test different setups ourselves.
Sure that the new structure and arborescence style are bad. These zillion rooms are just nonsense.
Nevertheless:
a) I think most players have finally discovered this magic button "Show all variants" by now...
b) you can remove 2p like I did (and also some of the BS that you see then).
...the old structure was better 
Jun 9, 2022
0
#6
Even if we had the show all 4pc queues button, the thing is, nobody would click that button anyway. It was the same before the merge, we had a button for beginners which shows all 4pc variants, because only 4pc standard was visible to them, still, nobody clicked that button and played variants. Same story here, nobody is clicking that button, I've never clicked on it either. So whatever is hidden behind that button is just idk count it as if it never existed.
why are we making such unorthodox names for these new starting positions like seriously prof couldn't you think of anything better than "MiRo" lmao
Jun 9, 2022
0
#8
I like this Setup (BYG), but I want to give you my impression in practical terms, since I played it and explored it, I'll give you my reasons about Setup (BY):
- I am very used to starting with white pieces, with the king on the right and the queen on the left in 2pc. If I compare it with 4pc, red and blue start in the same way in BY and that gives me a kind of closeness, or is more familiar, therefore I consider it more logical from a first impression.
- When you are red and you have the yellow ones in front of you, the same visual effect and concordance in similarity to the 2pc is also achieved
- Anyway BY offers you a wider range of openings, which would be interesting to apply and explore in depth, it doesn't feel so static or sometimes forced in some initial moves, as it happens in omatamix.
In all my assessments I try to always be super objective and consistent, we already gave old standard a chance, also omatamix, but without a doubt, Bsrti impacted me from the first day I met him and there is an audience that votes for the format .
Analyze this also what I want to add to the argument:
- Is that on move 1, red can directly attack the weak king pawn of blue; but with the difference, that blue, can immediately respond to red's attacks.
- Gives the feeling of being able to make multiple openings.
- Compared to the other setups, it doesn't feel forced, to make openings in terms of defense, I feel like you can open yourself up to more than one option.
- As for the initial aesthetics, it gives you an identical view to classic chess; And this is an important achievement, which I highlight in magnitude.
- Playing it immediately gives you that feeling of excitement.
- Blue against green also achieves the same impression in similarity, that gives me greater expected achievement.
Setup (BY), It is for me the best alternative.
I really feel like we should explore it, it will be new for everyone, and I'm sure it will be exciting to play.
This option was highly voted in the poll:
This version can be well appreciated, both in TEAM and FFA
I insist, it deserves to be explored.
Jun 9, 2022
0
#9
>This option was highly voted in the poll:
There was no other option besides old and new standard?
You would have to let people vote on BY vs BYG.
Jun 9, 2022
0
#10
I'm not sure how much a poll would help you, because it would be more of something based upon name recongnition than logic-based opinions. In other words, I don't think the poll will help you determine what is a. a better position and b. well-liked because a poll does not measure goodness, only popularity
Jun 9, 2022
0
#11
maybe we can add R where only red king and queen are switched from Old Standard
Jun 9, 2022
0
#12
Variants as in NCVs, or Variants as in the suggested Standard positions?
Jun 10, 2022
0
#13
YouTube4playerChess wrote:
Let's just change the game every time someone gets a new idea.
The game is not changed every time someone gets a new idea. As you said it's an "idea". This is just a proposal, no rules have been changed. If it becomes popular and is verified to be balanced, then maybe the rules will be changed. In that order.
Jun 10, 2022
0
#14
Polls are not relevant sorry, as there were FAR TOO FEW players who responded, and also the experience most have is VERY VERY insufficient in order to judge.
The only way to REALLY understand all that (and to understand which of the 16 positions is the most balanced and the least tricky in terms of the opening moves and the least boring and the richest as for possibilities and the preferred one) is to open all 16 positions available for creation; accumulate at least 5-10 thousand games on each one, and then it'll become clear. As of today, it's simple, we only have this experience on the Old Standard. Not even Oma nor BRSTI.
Jun 10, 2022
0
#16
Indipendenza escribió:
Polls are not relevant sorry, as there were FAR TOO FEW players who responded, and also the experience most have is VERY VERY insufficient in order to judge.
The only way to REALLY understand all that (and to understand which of the 16 positions is the most balanced and the least tricky in terms of the opening moves and the least boring and the richest as for possibilities and the preferred one) is to open all 16 positions available for creation; accumulate at least 5-10 thousand games on each one, and then it'll become clear. As of today, it's simple, we only have this experience on the Old Standard. Not even Oma nor BRSTI.
Do you know the damage you do with this type of statement?,
that the few people who dare to interact and express an opinion, you go and throw it in the garbage can, and consequently the decisions end up being made between 4 walls.
I was just looking for that little audience that participated, to give their opinion on the matter, and I have fought all this time, so that the audience is heard, but with that type of comments, you leave a lot to be desired @Indipendenza . The only thing you provoke with that is that no one in the audience is considered and finally an internal decision will be made.
Those few people who give their opinion are extremely valuable to me, including you, who also voted. And I will continue fighting for it to be so, because they are the ones who love and play in 4pc with as much value as I do, therefore everything they think is extremely important.
martinaxo wrote:
Indipendenza escribió:
Polls are not relevant sorry, as there were FAR TOO FEW players who responded, and also the experience most have is VERY VERY insufficient in order to judge.
The only way to REALLY understand all that (and to understand which of the 16 positions is the most balanced and the least tricky in terms of the opening moves and the least boring and the richest as for possibilities and the preferred one) is to open all 16 positions available for creation; accumulate at least 5-10 thousand games on each one, and then it'll become clear. As of today, it's simple, we only have this experience on the Old Standard. Not even Oma nor BRSTI.
Do you know the damage you do with this type of statement?,
that the few people who dare to interact and express an opinion, you go and throw it in the garbage can, and consequently the decisions end up being made between 4 walls.
I was just looking for that little audience that participated, to give their opinion on the matter, and I have fought all this time, so that the audience is heard, but with that type of comments, you leave a lot to be desired @Indipendenza . The only thing you provoke with that is that no one in the audience is considered and finally an internal decision will be made.
Those few people who give their opinion are extremely valuable to me, including you, who also voted. And I will continue fighting for it to be so, because they are the ones who love and play in 4pc with as much value as I do, therefore everything they think is extremely important.
finally, someone who understands that a "minority" that actually values and expresses their opinions is more important than a "majority" that couldn't care less about any of the changes simply because they haven't played this game for as long as we have and have no idea how to play it well
Jun 10, 2022
0
#18
Marti, you can't base a decision on a poll where less than 0,1% of the players take part... Even if you consider only the active ones, it's not more than 5% probably. Hence my point. By no means I wanted you to feel discredited or whatever, I was just speaking about the relevance of the outcome. Just FYI, most of the players do NOT follow the forums, do NOT even understand what is this discussion about, etc.
In addition, in order to give an intelligent answer one needs to have played a lot some particular set-up. For instance I voted for the old standard simply because I feel I have much more experience on that. I mean, if only those who have played all of the proposals could vote, you would have had 5 votes maybe.
Jun 10, 2022
0
#19
Darksquareman wrote:
Indi is the judge of who is relevant and who isn’t.
No, Indi simply has "some" knowledge of the statistics and "some" knowledge about how marketing research and political polls are done, as per professional and scientific standards, and also "some" knowledge about which biases exist in polls (and in the vote on the set-up we could see a lot of them).
Just an example: we can do a poll about Radon for instance, with 4 options to choose, 53 participants vote, and maybe this poll will find that 45% of the participants vote that he is an idiot, 35% that his play is immoral and 15% vote that he should be banned and 5% vote that he should be castrated. Would you find the results relevant, or will you (legitimately) say that this poll was a total nonsense?
Jun 10, 2022
0
#20
Consider that if we think this way, in the future no comment that we expose will be relevant or important, because it will always be a minority.
All decisions made in the future will be imposed, and the audience will only have to accept them without remedy.
Do you really want that stage?
At least not me, since the return of the important player base has not yet been resolved, and I can name them one by one.
I need all these players to come back to play frequently on the platform.
rojitto
hest1805
EyeoftheTiger1204
Cha_ChaRealSmooth
LazyImp
Chestnut924
Riba
Grathieben
mati4333
JCrossover_14
a1t19
matenitian
Radon
carlosgabriel1234
Typewriter44
ccoppola
Darksquareman
LucianoBonfico
GiovannyRG
Fiat147
RicharCG
typicalmove
sumat777
Suneth
MoreMao
rook6431
roadrunner18
HSCCCalebBrown
LaMikk
jessezafirakos
SirMullih
Somir_Mnegi
vrdtmr
bicho490
MalburySoapPinkSoap
GDII
Illingworth
fourplayerchess
Caiello
KillerBishop8888
DustyTwig1
SeadraCheeseChess
milrayitasmdqdiaz
GTSWPM150
kurtssj
7Andy
ProfBlundermaster
liquid-sun
jbolea
ShintoTsukoyami
LiquidFyre
RogerFederer
GothGirlGames
empty_K3
santox994
neoserbian
fischer_tanvir
martinaxo
chadkatter
petyamold
whatyousaidno
vigneshrocker123
Besher
JustinD7
ChessMasterGS
JkCheeseChess
NightLoveRaver
G00FS
WDardoW
reynaldope
jomendez1
LosChessquire
DZIRI05
KatrinaQueen
MisterWish
icystun
Myway98
MikfailTal
Tarsmick
ivo324
505EXY
Spaksi
ZoDello
Magicsteph
michael2304
enriquemaldonado
16danielinho16
bullfake
Slayer950
anreyking1
NDimitrij
crusty25
anurag_b
BlueTeddyBears
KidBuuJohan
Mzambe
1zxy
mgcazares
Indipendenza
J-0ker
scotfran20
GoldCoinCollector
Joobla
lagodiComo
PepeFumigaciones
salsaton
Calagane
wilsonmar1
Turnip-Killer
QuickCastle
Rasen555
Pirannita4Cazador
Holybull
only some of them are playing on the platform, but not with the natural frequency that existed more than 3 months ago, and that still has no solution.
In an attempt to find the best setup for both FFA and Teams ten setups were analysed, most of them with the help of the top players. The optimal setup was found to be BYG switch, which you can see below:
Let me enumerate all the advantages and disadvantages of the setup:
+ Great Opening Structure variety, surpassing even old standard in terms of this aspect very slightly. All the structures are viable even without transpositions, but I'm convinced that certain transpositions could make certain structures stronger.
+ Great Flavour variety, the games can range from highly positional and slow-paced ones to the super-complicated and tactical openings, just like in old standard. Any side can avoid too tactical or too positional openings easily.
+ Great Opening variety, any player can play queen's pawn OR king's pawn via a transposition or, if it is legal, right away on the first move and come out with a decent position, albeit some openings require superb theoretical understanding. Compare to old standard, where every side has both king's and queen's pawn ideas, albeit with many transpositions.
+ A rather rare scenario that lower-rated players might compare to RY running out of moves while the higher-rated players would call it a long-term advantage, is when RY have to slow down so BG may obtain an advantage that will allow them to equalize. In BYG switch, this advantage still belongs to BG, though it is highly nerfed compared to old standard due to KQ placement and rather exceptional move order specifics (was tested thoroughly), unlike in omatamix setup. It is even possible for BG to overtake RY in rare cases, but RY can convert via the same advantage and vice versa. The arguments to explain this in the setup are omitted for brevity, but for the lower-rated players you may want to take a look at this game to grasp the idea: https://www.chess.com/variants-test/old-standard/game/7303216/0/1.
+ Equal activity for FFA except yellow, but yellow is much more solid than the other colors and doesn't have to rely so much on red. Overall, this setup features a superb FFA balance.
+ Great engine evaluation, top three according to the TeamTerminator.
= Mild aesthetics, not ugly and is rather fast to adjust to.
- Not representative of 2PC, but, hey, 4PC is an entirely different game!
Setup Comparison:
Notable testing games:
https://www.chess.com/variants/custom/game/27018916/0/4
https://www.chess.com/variants/custom/game/27040298/78/3
https://www.chess.com/variants/custom/game/27060930/54/1
https://www.chess.com/variants/custom/game/27044637/36/1
https://www.chess.com/variants/custom/game/26701657/54/1
https://www.chess.com/variants/custom/game/26700912/42/2