A new setup proposal: BYG switch.

(BTW, a very simple question: what was the CLASSICAL set-up that was put in the XIXth century German book from start? Shouldn't we simply keep this one, regardless of its intrinsic flaws?).

(What I hate with the new set-up, that's the fact there are obliged moves to defend yourself, especially when you're G; and there are MUCH LESS possible openings, it makes it boring; in addition, a position where JUST ONE SIMPLE PAWN MOVE sometimes makes a direct check can't be good).

New players are probably so confused because their king is in the wrong spot. Server bug

Why 4pc is dying?

1. They changed the set up

2. They changed the timing to 1/7. Players now have 1 sec to analyse the moves of 3 players and make their move or they become disadvantaged via their time running out

3. There is NO time warning sound letting you know your time is running out. Players are losing games due to time running out and not because of their ability

4. The web page NOT user friendly

5. The web page ignores what options a player select and forces players into games that does not match their selected options.

6. 45 sec wait when a player joins a game and chooses not to play.

7. Chess.com have never addressed the issue many players have with 'teaming in FFA'. There are many players who do not want to play teams. This is one of the biggest issues of player complaints about FFA. Many players have put their ideas in forums offering great suggestions about how chess.com can address this issue. There are many players who want to play a 'Non-teaming FFA' game, but are left thinking 'why not just get rid of FFA and only have teams because there is hardly any difference between the two?' I would love to see the 'teaming in ffa' issue addressed. Read the forums, it is very possible. 

@TheCheesePhoenix

1. A lot of players have left so it is a big deal

2. The old way gave thinking time before the clock started counting down, this does not. The time goes down instantly. They offer up to 7 sec, but only to those who move as fast as a computer would. Any normal human who may take a few seconds to think as well as physically make their move will lose time on most moves. THERE IS A BIG DIFFERENCE. The old way, a player could think for few sec and physically make their move and their time would not be affected. Look at games played now and before and you will see the evidence for yourself.

3. A lot of people have left so it is a big deal

4. A lot of people have left so it is a big deal

5. WOW, the only time you weren't trying to put down another persons thoughts

6. Games use to end after 30 sec NOT 45 sec

7. People do not have a problem with it? Do not speak for me because I do have a problem with it and so do others. For you to say people say it but do not mean is ignorant.

@TheCheesePhoenix, I have noticed you tend to comment on other peoples comment and your responses come across like you are trying to undermine other players opinions because their opinions are different from yours. We live in a world where everyone will have different opinions.

This forum asked for people to express their opinion. I read different opinions. Some I do not agree with, but I would never respond to another persons thoughts/opinions, telling them they are wrong, or what they wrote was not a big deal. I am responding to you because you targeted me.

Please do not respond to my comments because I do not want to hear your opinion. I do not care what you have to say. I posted my thoughts on the new 4pc because chess.com asked for players to give their thoughts. I never read anywhere where chess.com asked players to respond to other players comments.

You need to learn to respect all players comments and should never respond to another persons thoughts in a way that undermines what they are trying to say.

Do not respond to this comment. This comment is only here because you provoked this response by commenting on my thoughts in a way that was undermining my opinion. You commented on my post, I responded, it is now THE END of this conversation. 

Facts don't care about your feelings. At the end of the day you play games for fun, so we need to combine our ideas to find the best strategy to make 4pc as fun as possible for the majority of people.

Look what happened when people went ahead with something extremely ambitious even though only a minute amount of people approved...

https://www.chess.com/clubs/forum/view/re-why-is-4pc-dying

about 7. I'll add that this is not a new problem that arose since the merge, so you can't claim it has anything to do with recent changes. But I do think it is in reality the biggest problem FFA has.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't the "Teaming" issue solved before when we had Solo, Teams, and FFA separate?

Anyone who wanted a Non-Teams game could play Solo.  FFA "Teaming" starts around 2000-2200, and most good players learn to adjust to how the 4 Player Stage is played.

I was personally stuck at 1900, until I learned to play Teams, and in the end Teams became my favorite mode of all 3.

Solo should've remained a separate mode, instead of Merging with FFA.  This is a large contributor to High Level FFA games no longer being played on a regular basis.

In General I don't see how "Teaming" in the 4 Player Stage can be avoided, it's how the game has evolved and is best played.  You either learn to adjust, or complain about it in the forums.

Feels like you completely miss the point: Solo or FFA, the problem is the same, the best strategy is to play teams 4way. Even in solo mode you won't get far "until I learned to play Teams". And the issue is: Most players don't want to learn teams! they say, there's a teams mode for those who want to play teams!  And the only solution is, to change the rules of FFA/Solo so that playing teams not be the best strategy.

and pleaes, let's discuss this in the other topic i just created. this topic is for discussing the byg setup.

First of all, he didn't have any idea.  He was just summarizing the situation very concisely as he sees it (and as it is):  that some level of teaming is going to be the best strategy of play in FFA/Solo unless the fundamental rules of the game are changed to dissuade such strategy

There´s no turning back, forward is the only way. A new setup may revive 4pc. Emphasis on being fun and exciting, not "balanced". The new standard allows for many many openings but it´s like it´s always the same patterns and schemes. A rich variety of strategies weights more than just many playable moves. A fast and furious game is what gets most people amped and pumped. If you take many games by move 20 most people will not be able to tell what the starting setup was. At some point it´s all the same sharp tactics. But still the opening matters a lot, or actually the opening matters the most. People do not engage to the game for what happens on move 10 or 15. Boring openings hurt the popularity. Quick fireworks flare up the game.

Another good way to put it.  Having many playable moves isn't necessarily a good measure of variety, it's just the shortcut our brains use to evaluate it.   A lot of games I just play more or less the same moves, I'm just looking for optimal move orders to implement them in (as in should I play d4 now or could it wait a move? What about Qk10?).  But if we end up in essentially similar positions, the game will quickly become stale.  The same recurring development schemes, the same thematic tactical ideas, the same sorts of positions.

@Derlin87
I disagree with this because of the following:

- It all depends on the initial management of your opening.
- Remember that the yellow color is not the last to move clockwise. Green is last to move.
- In most cases at higher levels, the color red that has initiative tends to be very aggressive and very collaborative with its opposite.
- Historically there has always been a greater loyalty between red and yellow, compared to a high level of disloyalty (betrayal) between blue and green. This is an undeniable or indisputable reality, the green color is forced to play at a very high level, and must be very active and play the correct main lines in the first moves, otherwise its opposite will not forgive it (blue) and even he could punish him.

I would dare to say that the last affirmation that I have made, could occur in any Setup that you are. Anyway, thanks for showing interest in defending the BYG Setup.