About the Over The Board booting.

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Avatar of Jaap-Amesz

Some things I never could say in the Over The Board club since that would be not be politically correct.

If Benedicte (the boss there) says there was more then 1 person who wanted me booted? Who are they? And couldn't they talk to me?

Also isn't there a more intrinsic problem. I rarely learn from under 1900 players. I don't mean that rude. I guess a GM would not learn much from me either. When Smyslovfan (2100 Fide) got booted that was a huge disappointed to me. The guy was very knowledgable, I picked up some nice tips from him. There are 2 members who are 2200 Fide but they hardly say a thing. So in practice I got Smyslovfan, Kag Moon and Laurant. For the rest is was a bit of entertainment for me.

Maybe the core contributers all under 1900 didn't like me because we also couldn't connect. Yesterday at the club (see my Smit game on the forum) I beat a 1861 guy. The guy did NOT want to analyse, but just commented on his great play and his 1 (??) mistake. Haha. Suppose I would say 'boy, your opening, midgame, tactics and endgame were bad, you can learn from me since I outrank you 300 points, or you can live in your personal dreamworld', do you think he will like me? No, he won't. He will be complaining against other people that I would be rude.

When he was talking to me, giving his vision on our game in words (so not concrete moves on an analysis board!) , I had to think about the OTB group; maybe players connect less when the rating difference becomes to large, then they just see the game different.

But since after the Chesstempo debacle, I got invited to Over The Board, that became my new base. But maybe Benedictine is right on his argument that I am bad for group dynamics in that group; connecting on chess was hard. If Kag Moon didn't comment on my games, most of the time, nobody did.

Anyway Salty Turtle is my new base now.

Avatar of Jaap-Amesz

Also that crap about giving me a final warning, is simply untrue. Wait I will give Benedictine a rebuttal point by point:

Hi, it's not the fact that he orginally said 'shit.' I'm not prudish. It was the effect that 'we' talk shit, i.e. the stuff we talk about is nonsense, crap of no use etc, etc. I took that as a personal insult and insult to the group. Did I kick him no? I send him a polite warning and we moved on.

He I was scouted by Laurent to join their group of chess thinkers who debated improvement measures. Then when I give my opinion that some things are truly dumb, suddenly that is not the way to go?!

When Jaap insulted some more people - Gerhard, David? I can't remember now and they complained to me, I moderated again, warned Jaap again and moved on.

Never heard of any complaint from Gerhard. Never got a warning. NEVER.

These things continued for a while and then Jaap calmed down. Jaap was on a final warning by this stage. Already hours and hours of moderation, but that's OK let's move on.

Final warning?!?! WTF! NEVER HAPPENED. If I was told 'this is your final warning', then I would have layed low, started my own group (like this group) and just chatted once in a while there instead of seeking fire on the board in debates. And I was thinking it was about debating on improvement systems?

Then I had more complaints from more than one member that they didn't want Jaap in the group. I said Jaap hadn't done anything wrong and that personal opinion is not good enough reason for me to remove Jaap. I wouldn't do this. We lost David from the group for this reason, but that was David's decision. I wouldn't remove Jaap just because David wanted it so, even though I really liked David. (I liked Japp too).

Then Jaap would not let the reason for David's leaving go. He wanted to investigate and he did so by applying for every group David was in, causing David to leave one of this other groups. Jaap knew David didn't want contact from him so why did he do this? This is took as harassement and was the final reason for me removing Jaap.

This is really unfair. I already mailed Benedictine that because of his 3 (!!) mails to me that he was puzzled about David's quitting, that therefore I went on to investage. I will copy that mail:

"

You know? How people can view the world in different ways!

I view you as a friend. My friend mails me up to 3(!!) times with the message that he is puzzled. Fact right? You did that right?

Then for my friend I went on to investigate, an open investigation, I even posted my steps for transparency in my diary. I did not contact David, I did NOT post in his topics, I did NOT posted in notes of those groups, I only monitored. In fact I only got in the Achja club. I monitored to get a hunch as how to find a peaceful solution for all.

In Holland we have a saying "no good deed gets unpunished". The irony."

In all of this I have tried to be as fair and as reasonable as I could. I have consulted with the admins at all times, who agreed with the removal of Jaap.

In court, this would never hold. I NEVER GOT A FINAL WARNING FROM ANY MODERATOR.

I have personally spent, now it must be over 11+ hours moderating the Jaap business and I am more than completely sick of it. It is a complete waste of my time and this is the final time I will comment.

Huh? If it was that bad, you should have contacted me!

You are very knowledgable on chess and have had lots of interesting things to say and I thank you for your contributions, but I think it is best that you leave on by mutual agreement. At some future point maybe we can come together again if things calm down, but I just cannot spend any more time on this matter.

That would be nice. I hope to come back in the Over The Board group, to casually chat about chess sometimes, but for improvement and flamy article, I will do that in Salty Turtle.

I will leave your note in Jaap's diary and people can do, say or come to their own conclusions however they what they want, that's fine, but I must put this issue to bed once and for all.

That's easy for you to say when you are judge, jury an executioner all in 1.

All the best, Benedictine.

I am still OK with Benedictine, but this crap about (oh? can I don't say crap? well I am the boss in this group haha) about give me a final warning NEVER happened.

Avatar of Jaap-Amesz

I do not get the reply to Kag Moon from Benedictine.

Nor from Laurent or John did I ever get a 'final warning'. That John is using that now to validate his decisions is simply an easy way out. NEVER did any moderator say to me "this is your final warning, or else...."

NEVER did a moderator say we have spend X many hours on moderating. If I would have known that was such a problem, I would have never spend complaining about the bullying of David. It didn't kill me. If you guys meet over that sort of stuff for hours, then I wouldn't even have bothered emailing.

Guess, many mistakes of all of us. But that 'final warning' is totally unjust.

Avatar of KaG_Moon

This is a fight you (or meanwhile we) can not win, cause you're no Admin of OTB.

I think it is unjust, actually rediculous, and I believe you that you did not get a final warning. After all - I didnt get a warning, too, and got booted for - well, for what actually? - hm, probably for saying I dont feel like writing anything anymore until Jaap is comming back. But I can only guess. I didnt even get informed that I got kicked, I just noticed when I couldnt access the OTB Forum.

However, I dont take it that hard. Instead you might see it as an achievement? Aox got kicked from chesstempo, and I can only assume Temposchlucker got kicked from somewhere so he started his own blog, I went away voluntary from chesstempo (really, I could still write there if I wanted to. I just dont feel like it.), and you got kicked.

And - finally, I got kicked, too, so I am one of you guys - and that feels good! ('cause going voluntary from chesstempo isnt the same, and doesnt really count, does it?)

Avatar of Jaap-Amesz

I didn't get kicked from Chesstempo. It was just when you left, there was just no meaningfull discussion anymore, so I left. Booting 1 guy, eventhough he might have done something harsh, might impact innocent others. Suppose Richard was right, the fact that you left actually cost him 2 things: money since I did not pay for months and an active poster, since I did not say a word again.