What about variations before 4.f3? I used to play this all the time:
9thEagle,
Thank you for your comment. I've been meaning to organize the Blackmar-Diemer declinations (& BDG-related). See red link here, which is where it may eventually reside if/when it gets done.
Some analysis of these variations is available; however, the Von Popiel lines currently only have analysis through: 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Bf5
[With 5.Qe2 indicated as best, but only analysis following 5.Bxf6 is currently available.]
This area definitely needs additional attention & work. Thank you for the suggestion!
I have been playing the BDG since the mid-80s. I have my own special variation which I actually worked out from a Williams Gambit. It is 1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 Bf5 3.e4 dxe4 4.g4 Bg6 5.Qe2! (Torning Variation) offering the d4 pawn. It is a hybrid between the Veresov, Alburt Defence, Ryder Gambit. Tim Sawyer has posted several of my bullet games over the past two years and included some in his book 5 and book 8. Personally I do not believe it should be a Zeller Defence as f3 is not played. I have played over 60 games with this line. See the most recent comments:
http://sawyerbdg.blogspot.com/2018/09/bdg-3bf5-zeller-gambit-5qe2.html
http://sawyerbdg.blogspot.com/2018/12/blackmar-diemer-zeller-pucarevic.html.
... I have my own special variation which I actually worked out from a Williams Gambit. It is 1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 Bf5 3.e4 dxe4 4.g4 Bg6 5.Qe2! (Torning Variation) offering the d4 pawn. It is a hybrid between the Veresov, Alburt Defence, Ryder Gambit. ...
Troubles39,
Thank you for your comment & links. The variation looks interesting. I have no analysis of it as of yet, but, upon seeing your comment, I've begun analyzing it even as I write starting with 1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 Bf5 since I've got nothing there yet.
... I have my own special variation which I actually worked out from a Williams Gambit. It is 1.d4 d5 2.Nc3 Bf5 3.e4 dxe4 4.g4 Bg6 5.Qe2! (Torning Variation) offering the d4 pawn. It is a hybrid between the Veresov, Alburt Defence, Ryder Gambit. ...
This line that you suggested, Torning Variation, is quite forcing after 5...Qxd4 and White is winning.
I posted some computer analysis at the links below:
Hi Gary, (phillidor5949)
http://sawyerbdg.blogspot.com/2019/04/
[Event "Casual Bullet game"]
[Site "https://lichess.org/qwrm1RG0"]
[Date "2019.04.13"]
[Round "-"]
[White "Richard Torning"]
[Black "Anonymous"]
[Result "1-0"]
[WhiteElo "?"]
[BlackElo "?"]
[ECO "D00"]
1. d4 { [%clk 0:01:00] } 1... d5 { [%clk 0:01:00] } 2. Nc3 { [%clk 0:01:00] }
2... Bf5 { [%clk 0:00:58] } 3. e4 { [%clk 0:01:00] } 3... dxe4 { [%clk 0:00:56]
D00 Blackmar-Diemer Gambit: Zeller Defense } 4. g4 { [%clk 0:00:59] } 4... Bg6
{ [%clk 0:00:55] } 5. Qe2 $5 {Torning variation [%clk 0:00:59] } 5... Qxd4 $2
{White unleashes a vicious attack now. [%clk 0:00:53] } 6. Qb5+ { [%clk
0:00:52] } 6... Nd7 { [%clk 0:00:49] } 7. Qxb7 { [%clk 0:00:49] } 7... Rd8 {
[%clk 0:00:48] } 8. Be3 { [%clk 0:00:43] } 8... Qd6 $2 { [%clk 0:00:38] } (
8... Nc5 $4 9. Bb5+) 9. Rd1 {free hit but best is [%clk 0:00:40] } (9. Nb5 $1
) 9... Qe5 { [%clk 0:00:31] } 10. Nb5 { [%clk 0:00:36] } 10... f6 {looking for
a flight square but its all over. [%clk 0:00:18] } 11. Nxc7+ { [%clk 0:00:26] }
11... Kf7 { [%clk 0:00:17] } 12. Bc4+ { [%clk 0:00:25] } 12... e6 { [%clk
0:00:15] } (12... Qe6 13. Bxe6#) 13. Bxe6+ { [%clk 0:00:23] } 13... Ke7 {
[%clk 0:00:15] } 14. Qb4+ { [%clk 0:00:19] } 14... Nc5 { [%clk 0:00:05] } 15.
Bxc5+ { [%clk 0:00:15] } 15... Qxc5 { [%clk 0:00:02] } (15... Rd6 16. Bxd6+
Kd8 17. Qb8#) 16. Qxc5+ { [%clk 0:00:15] } 16... Rd6 { [%clk 0:00:00] } 17.
Qxd6# { [%clk 0:00:13] White wins by checkmate. } 1-0
The BDG is fun!
regards
Rick Torning
1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.f3 exf3 or 1.d4 Nf6 2.f3 d5 3.e4 dxe4 4.Nc3 exf3
Now either:
5.Nxf3 Blackmar-Diemer Gambit, Ryder Gambit
5.Qxf3 Blackmar-Diemer Gambit Accepted
After 5.Nxf3:
5...a6 Gedult Variation
5...b6 Ritter Variation
5...Bf5 Gunderam Defense
5...Bg4 6.h3 Teichmann Defense
6...Bh5 Teichmann Defense Declined
6...Bxf3 Teichmann Defense Accepted
5...c5 Kaulich Defense
5...c6 Ziegler Defense
5...e6 Euwe Defense
5...g6 Bogoljubow Defense
5...h5 Rook Pawn Defense
5...h6 Buis Defense | 5...h6 Defense
5...Nc6 Pietrowsky Defense
5...Nbd7 Schuttler Defense
Whereas the Blackmar Gambit is: 1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.f3