But is it teaming?

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Avatar of TheChessDude991
2-Ke2-0-1 wrote:

When 2 players are "working together" but not protecting each other and they will both get rewards then it is not enough proof for teaming, but when they are hanging pieces more than once and use "teammates" protection to checkmate or eat pieces, then, well, obvious teaming.

 

"Oh sorry, I didn't realize that Red's knight was hanging, I would've definitely taken if I'd seen it..."

It amazes me how much people can try to think of a way to eliminate this natural type of cooperation that's simply expected and required to play 4PC.

Avatar of 2-Ke2-0-1

btw I take back the use teammates protection checkmate is cheating since, well, checkmate is 20 points!

Avatar of kyogre7638

I was banned for seven days because i was playing with aidanreese a lot and they thought it was weird that we came out nicely in FFA games. This is completely bogus. i play with him a lot because our families are close. we did not say a single word about teaming. we are both sometimes shortsighted and don't see advantages for the other that might result in an illusion that we are teaming. i also disable chat in a majority of my FFA games. Additionally,  I played a bunch of games that i consider the best i have ever play that were erased because i played it with them. Any game that i played a move that helped both of us was played completely without advice and was done only to further my own agenda, including games where i disabled chat. I demand that this injustice must be reversed.

Avatar of mattedmonds

If you want to play with your friend, just play teams together.

Avatar of kyogre7638

he demanded that we play FFA

Avatar of GustavKlimtPaints

I am not familiar with your case, but my personal nonofficial opinion is that if you are playing FFA with a friend a lot I would recommend to play only anonymous games, because from other cases that sound similar to your situation I have definitely noticed a pattern of people subconsciously making decisions that favor their friends as well, it's just basic human psychology...these are very difficult and gray sometimes for us to arbitrate when there seems to be a clear pattern of advantageous decision making over a large number of games, even if the people involved seem to be honest in that they weren't explicitly teaming.

Avatar of zisal2029

I think teaming should be completely banned outside of Diplomacy. The reason is that it can be unfair when you are being teamed up against as you might struggle to find a good defence (I once got teamed up against and got checkmated. Also, @concernedtrap123 said about the same thing in a different game’s chat).

Avatar of robertcraigen

Okay, I've said my piece about what is and isn't teaming (i.e. cooperating contrary to the rules -- which means COMMUNICATING in advance). Here's an example of Blue warning Green in the Chat about a mate in 1 about to happen.  

https://www.chess.com/4-player-chess?g=10220478

They "teamed" all game.  I've no problem with most of their cooperation; everyone does it.  This is what makes FFA interesting.  It is when they chat about it that it crosses the line.

 

Avatar of ChessMasterGS

Low rated player: OH A 2800

Me: *gets 3v1ed*

Low rated player: Without him, I will easily win!

*gets 3rd*

Avatar of GustavKlimtPaints
robertcraigen wrote:

Okay, I've said my piece about what is and isn't teaming (i.e. cooperating contrary to the rules -- which means COMMUNICATING in advance). Here's an example of Blue warning Green in the Chat about a mate in 1 about to happen.  

https://www.chess.com/4-player-chess?g=10220478

They "teamed" all game.  I've no problem with most of their cooperation; everyone does it.  This is what makes FFA interesting.  It is when they chat about it that it crosses the line.

 


Hi robert, yes this is against the rules and action is taken against players who do this (such as losing their chat privileges). Note that you can use /stop-chat in the chat if players start to communicate this way during a game.

Avatar of I776

how do i start a new topic

 

Avatar of grable

In order to answer your question @I776, you have to be a member of the club first. Find the button to "Join Club," then there will be an option within the forums to post a "New Topic." With other questions like these, please use the club notes in the future, as off-topic replies to forum threads are generally deleted.

Avatar of omRto2020

How can i know if a player i reported as cheating by teaming on chat have been banned?

Avatar of notlayjeno
omRto2020 wrote:

How can i know if a player i reported as cheating by teaming on chat have been banned?

short answer, you can't... but if you bookmark their profile you can see when [or if] their account has gone

Avatar of omRto2020

That sense of justice is missing then...

Avatar of zisal2029
omRto2020 wrote:

That sense of justice is missing then...

Which sense?

Avatar of omRto2020

That you know that when someone did something wrong, got punished for it, not playing freely becuase there isn't enogh admins for example...

Avatar of DoubleSpeedRocks
GustavKlimtPaints wrote:

Hi four player chess enthusiasts; this post applies to FFA players who are concerned about playing against a pre-arranged team, and I hope you read it before reporting players for "prearranged teaming," because probably 98%+ of the reports we get are complete bogus.

If you suspect after a game that two players in your FFA game were teaming, you can do one simple thing to help yourself send an actually helpful report: CHECK HOW OFTEN THESE TWO PLAYERS HAVE PLAYED TOGETHER. I can't tell you how many hundreds of reports of players "teaming" we've received where it turns out that one game was the single game the two accused had ever played together! Maybe the accuser could have spent 20 seconds looking at this available information themselves before sending the report! I will walk you step by step on how to use the archive for this purpose:


 

The Magicks of the Archive

 

(1. First of all, click the archive button at the top of the screen while you aren't playing a game)

(2. Suppose one of the players suspected of teaming is gustavklimtpaints; type their name into the search field)

(3. click the arrow with bar button on the bottom right of the panel to bring up the extra search features)

(4. type the name of the second player into the second name field, right below the first; it might show you suggestions of matching usernames)

(5. Let's also make sure we are searching farther back than 2 weeks: select "All" from the date list - to the right of the name field)

 

(6. Since we are concerned about teaming in FFA, let's select FFA from the game type list)

(7. Let's also select "Rated" or "WTA" in case these players might have played many casual games together, which would confuse our results)

 

(8. Looks like in this case these players have only ever played a single rated FFA game together, in which they both lost; they probably aren't very good, and they probably aren't teaming! Good to know!)


So does this conclusively show that two players haven't entered in some sort of prearranged agreement? Not exactly, they could be for example playing on many various usernames to avoid anyone else noticing two users are playing many games together; this is one reason we don't allow players to play on multiple accounts (and we monitor this by IP address). It is very hard at this point for players to actually team effectively, especially in the higher rated FFA games, as they are very easily caught. Let's talk about what most reports about "teaming" refer but which are not actually teaming. This is all likely all news if you've played FFA for a while, but this post is directed to players at all levels.

Oftentimes in FFA most threats on your position will be made by the players to your left and your right, especially in the early to middle part of the game; you can think of how difficult it is for the player across from you to threaten your position: their Knights are very far away, their Bishops would have to zig zag through dangerous enemy territory to threaten a square across the board, their Rooks are likely stuck behind other pawns \ pieces for a while; and it is unlikely they will move their queen near you where you can threaten it, while the other two players will create other threats against them. THEREFORE IT IS A NATURAL CONSEQUENCE OF THE GEOMETRY OF THE BOARD THAT MOST THREATS WILL COME FROM THE SIDE PLAYERS. Anytime your left player can check you, capture a piece, create a threat on one of your pieces, or even create the threat of a threat, it gives an opportunity to the right player to create a threat of their own. You must be aware at all times of the opportunities the other players have to capture your pieces on convenient terms, check you, or threaten your pieces, and do your best to stay one step ahead of them. For this reason, FFA can be very positional, but of course you cannot avoid all unpleasant situations forever; you must accept losing material at times and try to find similar opportunities on your opponents and come out ahead in the scramble, but please do not play expecting the privilege that two players are not supposed to double attack you and then report them for teaming, because in this case, it is only your own failure to understand the game! Thanks for reading my spiel.

PS: you can use the archive for other cool things like searching "All" your games and checking how many "1st," "2nd," "3rd," "4th" you have received in all your games; hest1805 has a ridiculous 1st place finish percentage! I'll let you discover other cool ways to use the archive.

I am posting this because I'm about to say what a lot of people are thinking but are too afraid to speak up for fear of reprisal by the people who run the site.  Teams or teaming is any act of deliberately leaving a piece or pieces en prise UNCAPTURED TO PURSUE A COORDINATED ATTACK AGAINST A 3RD PLAYER.  Especially if it's a free queen. I don't care if you wrote the programme for the game, you can't change that FACT. Teams are illegal in FFA. I don't need Archive, or any other statistic to spot teams. Players can decide to play teams, and it can be the only game they ever play together. You sir, are trying to sell everyone " a bill of goods " and everyone with 2 eyes that are open can see that that was TEAMS. I've lost to that same trap also, and it takes a TEAM to make that work. Otherwise, just scrap FFA altogether, just let everyone play teams, and the ones who want to play FFA can leave and go find another website that allows FFA play. 

Avatar of liquid-sun
DoubleSpeedRocks wrote:

I am posting this because I'm about to say what a lot of people are thinking but are too afraid to speak up for fear of reprisal by the people who run the site.  Teams or teaming is any act of deliberately leaving a piece or pieces en prise UNCAPTURED TO PURSUE A COORDINATED ATTACK AGAINST A 3RD PLAYER.  Especially if it's a free queen. I don't care if you wrote the programme for the game, you can't change that FACT. Teams are illegal in FFA. I don't need Archive, or any other statistic to spot teams. Players can decide to play teams, and it can be the only game they ever play together. You sir, are trying to sell everyone " a bill of goods " and everyone with 2 eyes that are open can see that that was TEAMS. I've lost to that same trap also, and it takes a TEAM to make that work. Otherwise, just scrap FFA altogether, just let everyone play teams, and the ones who want to play FFA can leave and go find another website that allows FFA play. 

 

1. You don't have to fear reprisal because we try to be fair and objective here.

2. Given this fair and objective view, if you could provide evidence to support why your definition of a team is more correct than our definition of a team, we would thus listen.

3. You haven't provided any evidence to support why your definition is better than ours.

4. Either provide evidence to suggest why your definition is better (as we have in great detail), point out the logical fallacies in our position, or if you cannot do either, perhaps consider why our definition of teaming may, by deduction, be more correct than yours.

Avatar of DoubleSpeedRocks
liquid-sun wrote:
DoubleSpeedRocks wrote:

I am posting this because I'm about to say what a lot of people are thinking but are too afraid to speak up for fear of reprisal by the people who run the site.  Teams or teaming is any act of deliberately leaving a piece or pieces en prise UNCAPTURED TO PURSUE A COORDINATED ATTACK AGAINST A 3RD PLAYER.  Especially if it's a free queen. I don't care if you wrote the programme for the game, you can't change that FACT. Teams are illegal in FFA. I don't need Archive, or any other statistic to spot teams. Players can decide to play teams, and it can be the only game they ever play together. You sir, are trying to sell everyone " a bill of goods " and everyone with 2 eyes that are open can see that that was TEAMS. I've lost to that same trap also, and it takes a TEAM to make that work. Otherwise, just scrap FFA altogether, just let everyone play teams, and the ones who want to play FFA can leave and go find another website that allows FFA play. 

 

1. You don't have to fear reprisal because we try to be fair and objective here.

2. Given this fair and objective view, if you could provide evidence to support why your definition of a team is more correct than our definition of a team, we would thus listen.

3. You haven't provided any evidence to support why your definition is better than ours.

4. Either provide evidence to suggest why your definition is better (as we have in great detail), point out the logical fallacies in our position, or if you cannot do either, perhaps consider why our definition of teaming may, by deduction, be more correct than yours.

I believe I have already spoken in great detail about your point 3 and 4 both in my OP.  Since I'm new to forums, please excuse my not being able to load the game in question. I have however am posting it's number, so everyone can see it for themselves. Game number 25507843. I finished 3rd, with absolutely no complaints on my end. I got attacked at my end by 2 players at once and it was perfectly legal. The 2 players involved were NOT LEAVING PIECES EN PRISE ALL OVER THE BOARD to attack a 3rd player. There is some real life evidence to back up my claim. Not " our reality is better than yours because we like it that way "