Chat Thread

I have a serious question: Can someone forward me the link of the page World League rules are written in?

Ruhubelent, look at the very top of the very main page of this group :-)

https://www.chess.com/club/world-league

Do you see the links there, including the one to the World League guide?

https://www.chess.com/clubs/forum/view/world-league-guide17

We have made it really short and concise so that players can and will actually read it easily :-)

You can also just look in the forum, for the very top forum threads, which are the very few ones to be stickied here, and you will get there too :-)

• Sternschnee
   
  I would recommend to discuss this topic in a Forum and post the link here instead of writing notes here on the front page.
• 

  CM ilmago
  2 hrs ago
  This is not even about workload. Directors cannot put anything on your group's homepage --- would you even want them to do such a thing? Chess.com has not built any kind of automated interface for team match leagues, and is far from being able to simply show league trophies anywhere, also just because they do not produce our standings. And for manually putting images on your homepages, admins are already able do it themselves, by editing the descriptions in Edit Club Profile of their group.
• 

  pam234
  2 hrs ago
  I cannot support anything that increases the workload of our Directors. They freely give us such a lot of their free time and cannot be expected to do the impossible. .
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  CM ilmago
  2 hrs ago
  Again, have you looked at all behind the links in the World League Guide? It seems you are somehow speaking as if you had not seen all the things that have been done there already, in the ways that have been feasible so far, very much in the direction of what you seem to be having in mind.
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  Hastyn-Mestayevo
  3 hrs ago
  I do not know. Every tournament or championship always has its recognition. What is ours? Forgetfulness? Mmmmm. We do not play to win money but at least a small recognition of the commitment of many players. If there was a small gratification there would also be greater competition and therefore more effort
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  SolitaireBat
  4 hrs ago
  Also, consider that the main value of the leagues is creating an environment and an incentive for people to play with a great number of players from other countries. Many teams hardly stand a chance to get to medal positions, while some teams are clear favourites in their divisions. This is definitely to a large degree a result of their admins commitment, but we are not sport teams in the classical sense, so I don't think that emphasising results is necessary.
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  SolitaireBat
  4 hrs ago
  While suggestions are a good thing, I want to stand on the side of directors here. Really, I can't believe it's too difficult to realise that running such a big, multiplayer game series is a really big task, and that this has been done quite magnifiently by a group of dedicated volunteers, for quite a number of years now. Is it a gesture of gratitude to invent some extra, and quite extraenous embellishments to be implemented?
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  CM ilmago
  6 hrs ago
  Look more closely, into these links. So many directors have put so much work and skill into making their results announcements, often with really nice graphics.
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  Hastyn-Mestayevo
  7 hrs ago
  Yes, I've seen that, but that only represents a link for the team. Certainly it has a very important meaning of the successes obtained but does not have the same visibility as a real trophy to be shown on the team's homepage. I think that inserting this change into chess.com is not impossible or difficult. It is the right recognition for the winning teams and for all its players
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  CM ilmago
  7 hrs ago
  Putting it on the team pages can only be done by reprogramming chess.com, that is beyond what the league directors can do. We have the hall of fame showing all medal winners, right in the World League guide for all the years of the World League so far, even also linking to all the places of all the years directly. Have you been seeing this?
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  Hastyn-Mestayevo
  8 hrs ago
  Ok I think that the idea is liked by everyone, also because it would be the recognition of an entire season and the commitment of all the team players. If someone appropriates the trophy illegally, sanctions could be applied. Without the recognition, even in graphic form, playing an entire season would be just a sequence of games and that's it. I will ask the WL and EL Admin for the trophies to be there as early as next season of WL and EL. Every idea and proposal is welcome
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  pgierech
  10 hrs ago
  I also like the idea. And I believe it would be quite natural to have such awards in teams' histories...
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  FedeBau
  1 day ago
  If the league wants to take it on, great. If not that’s fine, Our team will continue doing it for our players. It's just a badge. It’s there to remind us what we have accomplished. I don’t care if someone misappropriates it, but sounds extremely unlikely.
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  bezerramedeiros
  1 day ago
  In real life, any one can buy medals or trophies. Nevertheless, they are still awarded in face-to-face chess tournaments. As I said, it is all about legitimacy.
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  SolitaireBat
  1 day ago
  All right, maybe I'm trying to see potential faul play where there's unlikely to be one, but if it's only a picture to be copied and pasted, then it can be copied and pasted by anyone. I'm not saying teams will misappropriate it, but the very fact that it could be misappropriated so easily largely defeats its purpose as a reliable confirmation of actual merit.
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  bezerramedeiros
  1 day ago
  Many leagues alredy do it, so it is feasible (https://www.chess.com/club/super1700). It is just a picture to be copied and pasted. It is meaningful to who will win the right to use it in their clubs any way they want. The thing itself should not be confused with what it represents. It is all about legitimacy.
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  SolitaireBat
  1 day ago
  Let me play a little bit of Mago here and slow down the discussion in the notes section here :). Guys, before another hundred people come in with a vote of enthusiastic yay, consider if that is something feasible. Because I'm pretty sure everyone would be for, except I don't see a chess.com feature for awarding such trophies. And if we're just talking a piece of jpeg graphics which can be doctored by anybody, then it's not going to be very meaningful, is it?
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  FedeBau
  1 day ago
  Done like that, it takes some work to edit and distribute de award to each member, but I’m sure you guys can come up with a better way
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  FedeBau
  1 day ago
  Check my profile. We have done it ourselves when we won Pan-American League last year.
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  bluejay66
  1 day ago
  I agree too. A team works hard all year to get their medals, but the visibility of the medal could be improved on so their accomplishment is not forgotten. Current team members can view the medal with pride, and new team members would see it as something to strive for.
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  Alex-Pallavicini
  1 day ago
  Very good! I'm with you
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  virdi1966
  1 day ago
  YES
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  ramessesVIII
  1 day ago
  Yes!
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  stoker68
  1 day ago
  sounds good
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  Hastyn-Mestayevo
  1 day ago
  Hello everyone, I would like to propose an idea that I hope will succeed. I think it's nice that the first three winners of the respective categories can be awarded a trophy at the end of the WL (golden cup, silver and bronze style) to be shown on the home page or on the bulletin board of their club. The nameplate should contain the placement, and the year (for example: "1st WL 2018 Division A"). What do you think?

Shifted over from the group notes:

• bezerramedeiros
   
  I apologize if anyone was offended by what I said. It was not my intention. For my part, it's really done this time.
• 

  Sternschnee
  3 hrs ago
  We all agree that the case of @diggylo is sad and nobody is calling him a cheater. It is also clear that there is no way of knowing the true reason why a person closes his account since there is no real proof. It might seem or even be unfair for some but why discuss something thats not possible to change. So end this discussion, no need to offend or be offended
• 

  bezerramedeiros
  3 hrs ago
  Maybe this league and most members want to have an unfair rule for practical reasons. So they should say they prefer one injustice to another. It is that simple.
• 

  Lufi_Gomes
  3 hrs ago
  Same here. That's why I write as clearly as I can, while still being respectful towards You and everybody else. Unfortunately this is going nowhere, you're still stuck to your view and unwilling to acknowledge your flawed reasoning. So I guess it is time to REALLY write my last words on the subject and be done. Bye o/
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  bezerramedeiros
  3 hrs ago
  I am responsible for what I write, Mr. Gomes, not for what you understand.
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  Lufi_Gomes
  3 hrs ago
  Mr. Medeiros (and possibly others) missed the point here: "making" the rules is one thing, but enforcing them is a completely different subject, with more practical implications than most of us can think of when "looking from the outside". It would be better if you just admitted your mistake and apologized for calling people stupid - NOT ideas, people, because that's obviously what you implied and it was simply bad, and wrong.
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  bezerramedeiros
  3 hrs ago
  You are doing exactly the same: blaming me for daring to think. Who I am to express myself in this forum, this is your question. With all due respect, it's just one more dumb argument. The argument of authenticity is nothing more than a fallacy. Fight what I say, not who I am.
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  bezerramedeiros
  3 hrs ago
  @FedeBau I hope you understand I got curious to understand the reason for such a rule. What followed afterwards was that incoherent arguments were presented to me. What I did was try to counter-argue. I do not fight people, but ideas. So I did not call anyone stupid, even though I was met with a lot of non-sense.
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  FedeBau
  4 hrs ago
  @bezerramedeiros, I hope you understand that what you are questioning is a very basic rule that was implemented to make thinrhgs better. Not having that rule would make things much more unfair. I’m not sure whether you are or aren’t an active admin of a national team, but if you are not, it may be useful for you to get involved to understand what you have been asking for. Also please don’t call people stupid just because they disagree with you.
• 

  FedeBau
  4 hrs ago
  I echo the best wishes to @diggylo. The fact we get to hear about this means the community here is strong and that’s worth something. At least to me.
• 

  Lufi_Gomes
  4 hrs ago
  First of all my best wishes to @diggylo and friends/family; it is a battle everyone is involved into, in one way or another. As for the rule, it may be harsh, but it could easily become unfair if enforced case by case, right? It is the best we have, harsh as it is...
• 

  bezerramedeiros
  4 hrs ago
  Due to the last deleted comment, I had to write this yet: Your are right. Indeed, it is an absurd discussion. The thing is that I did not know that the rules were sacred and immutable. I apologize for sharing my thoughts, after being moved by the fact that someone with leukemia is being mistaken for a cheater.
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  whirlwind2011
  5 hrs ago
  I thought you were done. ;)
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  bezerramedeiros
  5 hrs ago
  "Only two things are infinite, the universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the former." Albert Einstein
• 

  bezerramedeiros
  6 hrs ago
  I understand, if the judicial system is in doubt between two suspects, the two must be arrested.
• 

  Hanno_Houmes
  6 hrs ago
  Point is that you don't know who is cheating and who's not.
• 

  bezerramedeiros
  6 hrs ago
  Should cheater and non-cheater be treated in the same way? Definitely this is not my concept of justice. There is nothing more unjust than treating unequal people equally. My last words about this subject. I'm done.
• 

  Hanno_Houmes
  6 hrs ago
  Why worry about a few points when someone is dying from leukemia? That's selfish..
• 

  ameriken
  6 hrs ago
  It is also unfair to expect admins to find out from every member that closes their account why they are leaving. It looks like enough work just trying to keep up with everything that is already involved with maintaining the league for us.
• 

  whirlwind2011
  6 hrs ago
  Holding all members to the same rules is not unjust.
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  bezerramedeiros
  7 hrs ago
  Nevertheless, I still think it's unfair to commit an injustice on the pretext of preventing another. But it's not me who makes the rules here, right?
• 

  bezerramedeiros
  7 hrs ago
  Well, the last argument is better than the ones wiped out. :)
• 

  bezerramedeiros
  7 hrs ago
  No sense. No reduction of work or any other alarmist assumption justify injustice. At least to me.
• 

  CM ilmago
  7 hrs ago
  A number of reasons. Maybe the most obvious for you will be that with us treating all closed accounts equally, there is no incentive for cheaters to try to play quickly, then close their own accounts "voluntarily", and hope that chess.com will not bother to check them any more.
• 

  bezerramedeiros
  8 hrs ago
  Why a voluntary closure is treated equally to a compulsory one for violating fair play rule?
• 

  CM ilmago
  8 hrs ago
  It is the fairest rule we can have about this to treat all closed accounts equally. All sorts of accidents can happen, sometimes they are inevitable. We have no way of verifying ourselves what happens to individual players.
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  CM ilmago
  8 hrs ago
  No Mobarez, that will not make any difference.
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  Mobarez
  10 hrs ago
  Quit club before close account may save team some points
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  pam234
  10 hrs ago
  Very harsh!
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  Hanno_Houmes
  12 hrs ago
  Wow that's heavy..
• 

  bluejay66
  12 hrs ago
  One of our players, @diggylo, had leukemia and was dying and closed his account, and now WL is taking away the points he earned and penalizing him and the team 6 points. Really? At times that rule for voluntarily closed accounts is grossly unfair.

• Penguincw
   
  Hi all. We, Team Canada, are not accusing anyone of "late surging" or any of that. There seems to be no concrete evidence of any rule-breaking. If you would like to discuss this more, feel free to DM me. Or in any case, please take this to the forums as to not clog up the notes. Thank you. -Penguincw, Team Canada admin
• 

  ameriken
  5 hrs ago
  I just don't see what WL admins can do. As long as teams meet the required minimum by the start date, they are still in compliance with WL rules
• 

  bluejay66
  6 hrs ago
  We do that best we can but hard to get my players to sign up without opponents. Our opponent this round, they are just waiting until last day to pile 100 strong players on us, that is anti-participation.
• 

  ameriken
  6 hrs ago
  Sounds like a lot of work for the WL admins. Rather, admins for your team can send news items to your team to sign up early and to expect the opposing team to pile on at the last minute. Especially if you know what teams are doing this.
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  Hanno_Houmes
  6 hrs ago
  yeah
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  bluejay66
  6 hrs ago
  The directors should get after these admins and tell them get your players signed up early same as Team Canada does, no more getting unfair advantage by holding back player signups until the last day or last hour of signup period.
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  Hanno_Houmes
  6 hrs ago
  Maybe the WL moderators
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  bluejay66
  6 hrs ago
  Their admins won't do nothing. They want to win the match, that's why they do it; they don't care that my players are reluctant to join.
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  Hanno_Houmes
  6 hrs ago
  Just say names/send a message to the admins. Then the problem might get solved earlier
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  bluejay66
  6 hrs ago
  Some of these teams, I won't say names, but they wait until the last day or even last hour before match start time to pile 80-100 good players into the WL match, so I dunno, this seems unfair to me and feels like anti-participation, since my players are reluctant to join the match in the 1st 9 days of the signup period because there are not enough opponents on the player list for them to play against.

copied over from the group notes:

skelos

 

4 min ago

@NAR14, how about you approach the competition organisers if you believe you should be eligible for the WL? Not all WL team admins need (or want) to see many notifications for notes that don't concern us.

NAR14

 

12 min ago

We can create a Reunion team and we go to internazional tourney

NAR14

 

13 min ago

For

NAR14

 

13 min ago

No,fora chess.com Reunion is a National

CM ilmago

 

 

40 min ago

Isn't La Reunion a part of France? Your players can take part in the World League by joining Team France.

NAR14

 

1 hr ago

Team Reunion need help

NAR14

 

1 hr ago

Please help me

NAR14

 

1 hr ago

?

NAR14

 

1 hr ago

We can play internazional League

NAR14

 

1 hr ago

https://www.chess.com/club/team-reunion

NAR14

 

1 hr ago

Hi i am the super admin of official Reunion team

The World League is for country teams. Your players can take part in the World League by joining Team France.

If you wish to take part in a league with your team, choose a league that allows any team to join.

Best build your number of members, and play some practice team matches, to get some experience about how many players will actually be playing in your matches.

And of course as an organizer, make sure you can receive messages --- as people will be needing to be able to contact you.

Please see above, NAR14.

How do I know for which matches I am eligible?

You are eligible for all matches

Okay, aren't we supposed to have a match coming up against Poland? I tried to join, and got a message that the match was aborted.

Why don't you ask your admins? They should know better than any of us from here, really, since they are in charge with your team's matches...

I have a question, Vietnamese Chess Friends club is representing Vietnam, is it possible to change the team to another team?

We normally do not change a team to another team.

Of course players of a country are encouraged to unite and join the team that is currently playing in the league.

In rare cases, when a team and its admins had become inactive, it has been necessary that a team dropped out, and then we were happy if we could find another team from the country to continue to represent it in the league.

ok, thank, because

chess.com/club/vit-nam

want to play it

That team used to play in the World League, but it became inactive.

So now the place is taken by another team.

ok, thank you very much for reply, thank you!