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Conversation with a follower of Krishna Consciousness on chess.com

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Yaqub_Shamkhalov

This person messaged me on chess.com a couple of days ago and we had a conversation about religion

Haribol88
5 days ago
Hello. How are you? I wanted to ask you something very important!
Please reply as soon as possible. It is very important matter.
Please reply Please.
Thanks


Yaqub_Shamkhalov
4 days ago
Yes what is it?


Haribol88
4 days ago
Actually I wanted to preach in Russia. Is it possible?


Yaqub_Shamkhalov
4 days ago
What do you mean?


Haribol88
4 days ago
I want to preach about religion.


Haribol88
4 days ago
So which city would be best and will people take interest in religion?


Yaqub_Shamkhalov
4 days ago
You are Muslim?


Haribol88
4 days ago
No


Haribol88
4 days ago
Are you?


Yaqub_Shamkhalov
4 days ago
Yes, what is your religion?


Haribol88
4 days ago
Krishna Consciousness.


Haribol88
4 days ago
So you are following religion since when. I mean were you Christian or atheist first?


Yaqub_Shamkhalov
4 days ago
I have never heard of it. How can I help you?


Yaqub_Shamkhalov
4 days ago
I was always muslim.


Haribol88
4 days ago
Ok. So like can you help me in preaching. Like will people be interested? Also where should I start preaching?


Haribol88
4 days ago
Were you Christian first?


Haribol88
4 days ago
Yaqub_Shamkhalov wrote:
I was always muslim.

Ok


Yaqub_Shamkhalov
4 days ago
I can not help you preach your religion because it will be a sin on me.


Haribol88
4 days ago
How why


Yaqub_Shamkhalov
4 days ago
There is only one god and Muhammad was his Messenger. This is what Muslims believe. So if I help you and you teach people something else then I am commiting a sin.


Haribol88
4 days ago
But how you know that some religion is true or no?

I have proof that Krishna Consciousness is true.

That's why I want to preach.


Yaqub_Shamkhalov
4 days ago
What is your proof I would like to hear? I know without any doubt in my heart that Islam is the only true religion because of my faith in god who has helped me all my life and logical reasoning. I know there has to be a creator or else the world would not exist and from there I look at the other faiths of the world and none hold up against Islam. If you believe your faith to be true I am interested in the proof you say you have.


Haribol88
3 days ago
So basically our Krishna Consciousness is true because our religious places has miracles. Please refer to this - https://www.rbth.com/blogs/tatar_straits/2017/02/24/when-a-russian-doctor-tried-to-crack-the-mystery-of-the-abode-of-lord-shiva_707558

This is about mount Kailash this is the place where miracles are happening. This website contains the details.

Also https://www.holidify.com/pages/jagannath-puri-temple-facts-60.html

The above website contains miracles in Jagannatha Puri which is also a holy place.

Have you heard of Ram Setu?

Also Krishna Consciousness is a faith where all your doubts gets cleared. Also I had a question that according to your belief from where we came, what is the goal of our life and what will happen after life. Also why do we sometimes get or may not get success in life?

Please read my explanation and the above mentioned website.


Haribol88
3 days ago
The proofs which I told are very little if you wish I can send more proofs but first read these proofs carefully.


Yaqub_Shamkhalov
3 days ago
I have looked into both links that you sent me. I have not found any referances to holy scripture or an explenation of what it is your faith teaches. The first link seemed like a cluster of conspiracy theories and legends.

"Muldashev’s team came to the conclusion that Mount Kailash is actually a massive man-made pyramid that was built in ancient times. He claimed that it was surrounded by many smaller pyramids and could be the centre of all paranormal activities."

This is just one quote taken from that article. After a quick google search I can infact say that mount Kailash is not a man made pyramid nor is it the centre of all paranormal activity but a regular mountain situated in the Kailash mountain range in the Tibetan Autonomous Region of China.

The second link was a poorly sourced article published by a traveling agency with many claims which just do not seem to be true. For example the claim that there are no shadows in the entire temple which can be disproven by any picture from google depicting it. The claim that the flag flows against the wind is hard to disprove since they do not provide the source. Other points of the article like the climb to change the flag are interesting but hardly miracles and again there are no sources.

So in short these two links were not the most convincing but I would still like to know what it is you believe. Do you believe in god? Do you believe in life after death? What is the point of existing according to your faith?

Now to the questions you asked me. As a muslim I believe in one allmighty god which we call Allah. This god created mankind to worship him and him alone. He has sent many prophets to spread his word with the first one being Adamﷺ of which we are all decendants and the last one being Muhammadﷺ whom he sent down the Quran, the holy book of all Muslims. As muslims our goal in life is to worship Allah and do good deads. When we die, our soul will stand infront of Allah on the day of judgement and it will be asked of us how we lived our lives. If we performed the obligatory prayers, did good deeds and gave in charity then by the mercy of Allah we will obtain eternal life in paradise. If on the other hand we commited many sins, where lazy and greedy then we would be condemned to burn in the Hellfire. Lastly to answer your question as to why we may or may not get succes in life the answer is simple: life is a test and we must be gratefull for any blessing or hardship we face. If we encounter a blessing we must thank Allah for it and if we encounter Hardship we must thank him aswell because all hardship in this life is either a test or a punishment. If it is a test we must be patient and if we are we will be rewarded for our patience. If it is a punishment then we must be gratefull that we are punished in this world and not the next.

I hope this answered your questions and look forward to you responce.


Haribol88
3 days ago
Basically about Mount Kailash some things you told may be correct. But the main thing which I would like to say is that people can climb on mt everest which is the highest peak but not mt kailash. About Jagannatha Puri I can guarantee that all these miracles are true. You can google search about Jagannatha Puri it is there in news also. If you don't belive i suggest two ways either you come personally and see or you contact any local person in Jagannatha Puri via social media and tell him to do video call and you yourself will see the miracle. Or if I get chance to go to Jagannatha Puri I can do video call. Now when answer your questions then, yes I believe in God who is one. He is Lord Krishna, The Supreme Personality Of Godhead. I believe in rebirth.


Haribol88
3 days ago
See it is like you are soul. When you had material desire you came to this world. There are 8.4 million births and species. We belive that hell and heaven are temporary the aim in this life is that since this human birth is very rare to get so we should utilise this life for doing Devotional Service to Lord Krishna. We should not do bad and good deeds. Since both lead to rebirth hell or heaven.


Haribol88
3 days ago
When your life is done then you have a 11 months journey to Yam( who checks all your deeds done in the life) and then due to your good deeds you get heaven for some time( for how much good deeds you do that much time you stay in heaven) and same with hell. Afterward you again take birth in this world.


Haribol88
3 days ago
Now due to the Karmic reactions like deeds done in past life or this life we get success or failure. If you get failure then think that it is good that you got the punishment now and so the amount of bad deeds are lesser now. When someone does Devotional service to Lord Krishna he directly goes to His eternal abode which is Goloka


Haribol88
3 days ago
I hope you understand. Also why do you eat non veg?

Why don't you belive in rebirth

What happens to soul before the judgement day?


Haribol88
3 days ago
Please ask me questions and answer my questions also


Yaqub_Shamkhalov
3 days ago
Allright, I think that I have a somewhat better understanding of your faith now. So we both agree that there is one almighty god, that there is heaven and hell, that you will get rewarded for your good deeds and punished for your evil deeds. Where we disagree is that I believe that you live in this world once and upon your death receive judgement after which your soul is eternally granted paradise or condemned to the hellfire and you believe that after death there is a period of time in which you are in hell or heaven which is proportionate to the amount of good or bad deeds you commit in this life and after that you return to this world through rebirth and this cycle repeats endlessly. At least that is how I understood it.

I will first answer your questions and then ask you questions of my own. Your first question is why I am not veg. which is assume to be vegan or vegetarian. As a muslim I eat what Allah has given me permission to eat. That means I can eat meat but not any meat. For example Allah tells us on 4 separate occasions in the Quran that pork is prohibited. (Surah Al Baqarah, chapter 2, verse 173 / Surah Al Ma’taan, chapter 5, verse 3 / Surah Al An’aam chapter 6, verse 145 / Surah Al Nahl, chapter 16, verse 115)

“Allah has forbidden you only carrion, and blood, and the flesh of swine; also any animal over which the name of any other than Allah has been pronounced. But whoever eats of them under compelling necessity - neither desiring it nor exceeding the limit of absolute necessity - surely for such action Allah is Much Forgiving, Most Merciful.”

I am currently studying abroad in Europe in the German capital Berlin so if I want to buy meat I have to go to a special Turkish market. This meat costs more than the mass-produced German meat that is sold in the local stores which means I do not buy it often, at most once or twice a month. The same goes in my country. You can buy meat in the store if you live in a big city but it costs a lot so only the wealthy can afford it. Once a year we have celebration called Kurban Bayram where if you have the money you buy a goat, slaughter it and give a third of it to those who are in need. But to sum it up we eat less meat than those living in the west and some muslims choose to be vegan.

Now to your other question: why I do not believe in rebirth and instead believe in the day of judgement. Allah tells us about the day of judgement in the Quran for example in Surah Al Nisah

“He will gather you all together on the Day of Resurrection, about which there is no doubt. Whose word can be truer than God’s? “

Here is a recitation depicting the day of judgement which has English subtitles: Day of Judgement. In addition to the fact that we are told in the Quran about the day of judgment, another reason why I do not believe in rebirth is because the concept does not make sense to me, but I will come back to that later. As for what happens with your soul in the grave awaiting the day of judgement, Allah can choose to punish you while in the grave or choose not to. Here is a video covering this topic by an Islamic scholar who has more knowledge than I do: Dr Zakir Naik. Allah knows best. I hope this answered some of your questions. Now I have some questions for you.

First I want to ask you about the concept of rebirth. You mentioned that there are millions of species and that human birth is rare. So do you believe one can be reborn as an animal? Or a plant, insect, fungus, bacteria etc…? If yes, then how does the concept of karma work? You said we have good or bad karma based on the deeds of our past life. Now I ask you, if for example in my past life I was wolf and I killed a boy will I be punished in this life? Will I go to hell as a wolf? In Islam we know that animals can not be held accountable for their actions so a cow or a wolf cannot go to hell or heaven. If the wolf is not held accountable, then how is my karma from my previous life determined? And my other questions would be if you have any religious scripts or schools. Where do you get your knowledge from? Do you have prophets? Do you believe in the devil? Let me know.

I apologize that it took some time to answer, I am not a scholar so I had to do some research myself. I hope I answered your questions. If you have any other questions let me know and I look forward to your response.


Haribol88
2 days ago
Ok. So

Yes a human can take birth as any insect or animals etc....

Animals do not get Karma....

Only human life is responsible because God has given us higher consciousness.

Vedas are our source of knowledge...they are given by supreme Lord himself.


Haribol88
2 days ago
Yes we believe in devil. Devils are souls who are disobedient of God laws.


Haribol88
2 days ago
https://krishna.org/reincarnation-faq/


Haribol88
2 days ago
Also what does the soul do till the day of judgement?

Which books do.you have?

Is it not injustice to kill animal for food?

Since we have fruits and vegetables to eat.

And what if you do bad deeds all your life and have not done a single good deed but have faith in God will you go to heaven?

Also do you have any questions?

If yes then please write to me.

Waiting for your response.

Thanks


Haribol88
1 day ago
Please reply


Haribol88
1 hour ago
Pleaae reply and dont be rude


Haribol88
1 hour ago
Why you are not replying


Haribol88
1 hour ago
Please tell


Yaqub_Shamkhalov
1 hour ago
My brother give me 20 mintues do not be impatiant. I have been busy but I will reply to you in half an hour.


Haribol88
1 hour ago
Sure.


Yaqub_Shamkhalov
43 minutes ago
I’m sorry it took some time to get back to you, I have been quite busy the last couple of days. I see you managed to spark a debate in the Russian chess club that didn’t end very well. You made a good point not to assign to much value to chess but as you see the Russians take their chess very serious, so I imagine this idea did not resonate with many. I have looked at the answers to my questions and the links that you provided as well as the discussion you had with the Russians. I think that all in all I have a decent understanding of your faith now, but I must say I am not convinced. I respect some aspects of your faith like the fact that you do not eat meat, you teach to do good deeds and be respectful to one another, but I still believe Islam to be the truth. I have no more questions for you, but I will answer the questions that you asked.

You first question was what happens to the soul until the day of judgement. When we die we enter a state of waiting called Barzakh until the day of judgement. It is the transition between this world and the afterlife. I highly recommend reading this article as it provides a lot of information on the topic: https://zamzam.com/blog/life-after-death-in-islam/.

Your second question was which books we have. Our primary source of knowledge is the holy Quran which has been sent down by Allah to our prophet Muhammadﷺ. We also have Hadith which teach us about the life of our prophetﷺ and his companions. Everything we need to know from judicial rulings to family affairs to the creation of the universe we can find in either the Quran or the hadith.

Your third question was if it is not injustice to kill animals since we can eat fruits and vegetables. As I said in the previous mail the consumption of meat is regulated in Islam. We are not allowed to eat certain animals like pigs or snakes and we are not allowed to eat dead animals. Allah has allowed us to eat the meat of certain animals if they were slaughtered in the name of Allah. As Muslims when making any decision we look at what is permissible in our faith and our actions must reflect that.

Your last question was a good one. You asked if one does bad deeds all his life but has faith in god, will he go to heaven. As Muslims we start every prayer with the words Bismillah al-Rahman al-Rahim which means in the name of Allah, The Most Gracious and The Most Merciful. So think for example of your mother. No matter what you do, even if you steal or lie, she will most likely forgive you. Since Allah is al-Rahim the most merciful he is even more merciful than your own mother. So we believe that a person who has committed sins all his life but lying on his deathbed sincerely repents in front of Allah will be forgiven. Allah knows best.

I hope I could answer all your question. As I said, I have looked into your faith but am not convinced and since I can’t help you preach in Russia, I can be of no further assistance to you but if you are interested in converting to Islam or have any other questions feel free to ask although it might take a day or two for me to respond.

Behrooz_Sadeghi

Salam to brother Yaqub,

I read the above exchange between you and Haribol88.  I enjoyed reading it very much.  Thanks for sharing it with us here.  I really liked your clear and fluent answers.

There are a couple of points that I'd like to comment on here.

Behrooz_Sadeghi

My first comment is about eating animal food for Muslims.  Yes, you are correct; human beings can take food which God Almighty has allowed for them to eat.  Some animal meat are allowed for us (which are called Halal) and some are not allowed (which are called Haram).

But, I want to address the question that was asked by Haribol88.  He asked:

"Is it not injustice to kill animal for food?"

The person who is asking this question is assuming that only animals have got life.  He is assuming that plants and trees do not have life.  But vegetables that grow in our gardens have got life too.  They intake water and minerals from the Earth, and take oxygen and carbon dioxide from the air in order to stay alive, to grow and to live.  When we cut them and harvest them to use them for food. we are in fact taking their life.  We are taking the life of a plant that is a living and vibrant entity.  Therefore, we can also ask the question from a Vegetarian:

"Is it not injustice to destroy a plant and take away its life for food?"

In my opinion, it is actually unjust to take the life of an animal or a plant for food.  We do not give life to animals or plants, and therefore we do not have the right to take away their life.  They have as much right to their life as we human beings do.  What gives us the right to kill an animal or to destroy a plant for my food?

Furthermore, what gives me the right to chop down a tree and use its wood and branches to build a home or chair or table?

In the religion of Islam, we learn that the only reason that we have the right to use animals or plants as food is because the Creator of universe who is the creator of all animals and plants has given us the permission to use some animals and some plants as our food. 

Perhaps that's why Islam teaches us that before we eat something we should say "Bismeilaheh Rahmaaneh Raheem", which means: "in the name of God the Compassionate the Merciful."  In other words, we are saying that it is with the permission of the Almighty Creator that we are eating this food, which is provided to us by taking the life of another living being.

Perhaps that's why when we want to kill a lamb or a cow, we must face the direction of Ka'ba in Mecca and say Bismillaheh Rhmaaneh Raheem.

In fact, that's why Muslims are encouraged (i.e. it is Mostahab} to start everything with the name of God Almighty.  We are, in a way, encouraged to start our action with the remembrance and with the permission of Almighty Allah tabarak wa ta'ala who is the originator and the creator and owner of everything in this universe.

Behrooz_Sadeghi

The second point I would like to address is the subject of "miracles."

Haribol88 is saying that there are some miracles that prove the truth of his religion.

But, we are living in the 21st. century, and we have easy access to experts and scientists and to various news sources all around the world.  If the followers of Krishna truly believe that they are witnessing some sort of miracles, then it would be easy for them to demonstrate the miracles to experts and to mainstream news channels.   Scientists could easily test and verify the truth of those miracles, and then the information about it would spread like wild fire around the world.  People from different countries will travel to India to witness the miracles for themselves, and they will accept the religion of Krishna en mass.  As the news of the miracles spreads around the world hundreds of millions of people will believe in their religion, and in that case there would be no need for Haribol88 to go around on Chess.com web site and preach his religion to other people.