Cute Little Problem

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strangequark

Find as fast as you can (just to make this easy problem harder!) what type of number sqrt(H+1)-sqrt(H-1) is, where H is a positive infinite hyperreal number. Supply your proof. Have fun!

Ripper89

I don't know if it is correct but I simply took a limit of the above expression when H->infinity and the result is 0.

lim H->inf [sqrt(H+1)-sqrt(H-1)] = 2lim H->inf [ 1/(sqrt(H+1)+sqrt(H-1)]=0 because the the power of the denominator is 1/2 and the power of the numerator is 0 so it is a real number.

If this is not correct pls tell me and I could try something else.

strangequark

H is an infinite number, so we don't really have to look for limits. You're close but not right yet!

Ripper89

Ok,here is the other version:

H is infinite hyperreal number

sqrt(H+1)-sqrt(H-1) = 2/[sqrt(H+1)+sqrt(H-1)]

let's denote 1/[sqrt(H+1)+sqrt(H-1)] with e (epsilon)

the denominator of e is infinite because it is the sum of two infinite positive hyperreal numbers; (H+1,H-1 are both positive infinite and their root of any degree is positive infinite as well) so 1/positive infinity = e wich is positive and infinitesimally close to 0

So the original expression becomes 2e , a positive real number multiplied by a positive infinitesimal e->0.The result is a positive infinitesimal close to 0.

We could also take the standard part of 2e:

st(2e)=2st(e)=2*0=0 so the original expression has to be close to zero and also positive

While searching for the theory that will help me resolve the problem I stumbled upon this problem in Jerome Keisler's book and it is resolved there so I think this fact ruins my work...anyway thanks for the problem.

strangequark

RIpper, your second answer is correct! Well done.

Ripper89

Thanks strangequark.Wink

Elroch

Cool!

pawn_slayer666

So why is that true, but if we were looking for H-H, it's undefined if H is hyperreal?  It's a bit counter intuitive...

strangequark

This is a good counterintuitive example of hyperreal numbers, although much can be understood with hardly any trouble.

So far as I know (and I know little), H-H is undefined as well as H+H, epsilon/epsilon, and a few other hyperreal expressions.

Ripper89

H+H is infinite because it is the sum of two positive infinite hyperreal numbers,and epsilon/epsilon is finite,you cancel out the epsilons and you get 1.Check it out in Jerome Keisler's book.

strangequark

My apologies...I meant H+K and/or epsilon/delta.

Ripper89

No problem, now I understand.Thanks.