Discussion

If 5. Qf3 happens, then what about Qc7? It gets complicated but I believe the queen gets trapped if jump@e4 Qxa8 happens. The best line I found for white goes 6... Bb7, 7. freeze@c7 Qxa7, freeze@a8 c4 8. Bxc4, jump@b7 Qxa7 9. jump@a2 Rxa7, Bxe4. White is up a rook but has no more jump spells, while black still has a jump spell. Black is threatening the knight on b1 and the rook on h1. I feel black has good chances here.

Can't feel gotta play it out , white has 2 pass pawns on queen side up a full rook and about to force black to use their last jump. They've got pork chops LTF they could easily outplay us in an endgame that is already in their favour

Giving away a rook just to have an additional jump and while not having actual plans is risky. Taking risks is unnecessary if we aren't in a worse position. White can also just play 8. Bc2 instead of 8. Bxc4.

What are logical responses for white after 5... Qe7?
6. Qxa8 Qxe1#
6. Kf1 Ba6+ 7. d3 [Our queen at e7 makes developing challenging for us]
6. Kf1 Bb7 7. Qe3 [or queen anywhere] Bxe4 
6. Ne2 Bb7 7. Qe3 [or queen anywhere] Bxe4.

What can white do? They can't give their queen and if we capture the e4 pawn that is always good for us, right?

I’m guessing, after Ne2 Bb7, LTF Porkchops and their crew probably can’t wait to castle, bring the rook out to target the queen on the E-file, so 6. Ne2 Bb7 7. Qg3 (Qe3 is kinda bad for white cuz Bc5 ideas of black later on), we can play 7. Jump@e6 Qxe4 actually, at least I think. White might think black has walked straight into the trap and want to rush to play Re1 to win the queen, so might go 8. O-O, but after 8. c4 9. Bc2, black’s queen bishop battery is strong and also has c5 square freed up for the bishop, what do y’all think? @ruotsalaineno, I guess Bxe4 is a bit dangerous white can take bishop with queen with freeze on black queen(f7) because if we don’t freeze back white can simply trade queens and be happily up a piece, if we freeze back white can support the queen with Bc2. @DaanB100 we’re not trying to alienate your ideas, but there really isn’t a clear way out for black after Qxa8, still, you could try to analyse it in depth maybe we’ll find sth new.

Yea Qc7 is risky but I feel Qe7 will eventually make it hard for us to develop. How about this line: Qc7 6. jump@e4 Qxa8, Bb7 7. freeze@c7 Qxa7, Bd6. At this point the queen has no squares and Nc6 threatens to win the queen.

White can try:
- 8. Qa5, freeze@b2 Qxa5. black wins
- 8. anything other than e5, Nc6 9. jump@b7 Qxc7, Bxc7 white is up a rook but black has 2 jump spells and enough pieces to utilize them, which is winning for black in my opinion.
- 8. e5, Bxg2 9. exd6, Qxa7 10. jump@a2 Rxa7, Bxh1. Not sure about this position, so maybe: 9. exd6, Qxd6 10. freeze@e7 Qxb8+, freeze@a8 Nf6 11. jump@d2 Bf4+, Qxb8 12. Bxb8, jump@e8 Rxb8 and the rook will be captured soon
Let me know what you think. I can't say that it is clearly winning, but it is fun to think about.

I am gonna vote Qc7 but feel free to vote Qe7 if you think that is better

White now probably wants 6. Bb7 7. Qg3 Nc6 8. Bg5, any ideas of how to prevent that and any tactical suggestions?

Do y’all think Nc6 works?

If we go Nc6, then white has 7. e5, Nd5 8. jump@d5 Qxa8. We can try 7... Bb7 but 8. Qg3, Nd5 9. Bg5 and its still a problem

I think we have to go Bb7 to protect the diagonal. After 7. Qg3 maybe c4 to free up the c5 square for our queen?

Maybe should we play Qf6 instead of Nc6 to threatening jump@c3 Qxb2 if they play Bg5.

In my opinion there is an interesting line with 6.Bb7 Qf3 7.Qf6 8. freeze@f7 Bg5 freeze@f4 Nc6 9.d4 Bd6 but I'm not sure that is correct.

Hey @kisgyurci pls vote Bb7 cuz I voted Nc6 without reading ur messages 🤦, I should’ve voted Bb7

Dang it, Nc6 woudve stopped Bg5 ideas as I had thought. 6. Nc6 7. Qg3 d5 8. Bg5 freeze@g2 Qxg5, and here it is only because there is a knight on c6 and pawn on d5, such that there are no Ba4 or jump@e6 Bxf7 ideas. Now that 6. Bb7 is played, we ran directly into white's plan of Qg3 Bg5 and our queen is going to get hunted. Gotta find a way to stop that, maybe 7. f6? I'll analyse. However, 7. Qf6 is losing I think, because 8.Bg5 jump@c3 Qxb2 9. Qe5 Ne7 10. jump@g7 Qxh8 Qxa8 11. Ke2 Qb2+ 12. Kd1 and black cant do anything to save its king from mate.

But, 7. f6 8. Bd1 g6 9. freeze@f7 Bg5, we lose the queen after 10. Bh5+ so 8. Bd1 Kd8? but 9. freeze@e7 Qd6 freeze@d5 Nc6 10. Bg5 Kc8 11. jump@f6 Bxe7 jump@d7 Bxd6 12. Bxd6 white is up a piece. Gotta think more.

Yes, you are right, after 8.Bg5 jump@c3 Qxb2 9.Qe5 is very strong move. After Ne7 white doesn't choose 10. jump@g7 Qxh8 but chooses jump@c3 Qxb2. It is a winning line also with a free Queen for white.

What is your opinion about this: 7...Qf6 8. Bg5 freeze@f4 Bd6?

I have a line: 8. Bg5 freeze@f4 Bd6 9. Jump@e6 Bxf7 Qxf7 10. Qxd6 Nc6 11. Nf3 Qf8 proposing queen trade 12. Qg3 Nf6 13. Ne5 then Nh5 wins. Going back, there is also 11. Nd2 we can still go with 11. Qf8 but there is also 11. a5 12. e5 Ra6 traps queen. Idk, your suggestion seems pretty good to me, everyone else what do y’all think? One point to sort of worry about is being down one freeze (although we are up one jump), white will def try to drain our freezes in endgame, so keep things complex and avoid undefended checks, if we simplify too much we give them way to many chances to freeze+check.

Ra6 is not working because white can capture the c5 pawn for free.

In this line the Bxf7 the keymove after that doesn't like to me the game.

We should check Daan's proposal regarding 7...c4 to give a free space for Q on c5. And with this move we are closing the a2-g8 diagonal as well.

After c4 dxc4 is too risky, we can take the e4 pawn and open the diagonal and the e-line together.

White should move Bc2, after that Qf6 is working I guess because there isn't any check on f7.

Am I right?

Yes I like c4 too because it is dangerous for white to take. After Bc2, Qf6 is possible, but what about cxd3 instead? I didn't calculate too much but 9. Bxd3, Bxe4 looks good

8. a6? If 8. cxb3 9. Nxb5 Na6 10. Bf4 it’s too dangerous for us. 8. a6 9. Bd1 Qc5?