ECL2024 suggestions

 This topic is created to discuss suggestions about ECL 2024 season. So actually let's start from one about divisions reconfiguration.

 I would suggest starting from ECL 2024 set up teams in such a way:

• Division 1: 10 teams (15+ players): 8 teams from 1st-8th places in 2023 and two teams promoted from 1st places of 2A/2B divisions;
• Division 2: 10 teams (12+ players): two teams relegated from division 1 + 8 teams took 2nd-5th places in 2A/2B divisions in 2023;
• Division 3: 10 teams (9+ players): 6 teams took 6th-8th places in 2A/2B divisions + 3 teams from 1st places of 3A/3B/3C divisions + 1 best team from 2nd places of 3A/3B/3C;
• Division 4: 10 teams (7+ players): 4 teams took 9th-10th placed in 2A/2B divisions + 2 teams from 2nd places of 3A/3B/3C (excluded the best who promoted to div 3) + 3 teams took 3 places in 3A/3B/3C + the best from took 4th places in 3A/3B/3C.
• Division 5: all other teams in one or several parallel groups (5+ players).

  I suggest this configuration in order to make teams composition in a division more even, make less a difference in minimum players requirement between divisions, so the teams can easier estimate their possibilities to meet this criteria, if they are promoted to higher division.

I think the more minimum players, the better. I've detected some teams have a group of 10-20 +1400 players and they always play with the same players. If a first division WCL group should have +400 players, I think 20 minimum or even 25 should be a better minimum number. Anyway it's a constructive comment. I really appreciate the time you dedicate to us and if your proposal makes it simpler for you, let's go ahead!

sounds good to me, a division jump from 5-7-9-12-15 players seems reasonable.

not that my IOM team will reach Div 1, but will some teams struggle to field 15 players?

ps - not sure what "MortadeloKing" above means by "I think 20 minimum or even 25 should be a better minimum number"

take it it means every ECL 2024 season game needs 20+ players.

I maybe can get 10-15 at a push

I think he means that 20/25 should be the minimum (instead of 15), but only for the 1st division. The maximum minimum so to speak...

Hello everyone! I would like to discuss the configuration of division 5 this season. There are currently 24 teams. So 2 options are possible:

• Swiss system in 9 rounds for all teams in one group (3 best teams are promoted);
• Round system in 7 rounds for 3 groups with 8 teams per group (1 best team per group is promoted).

I decided to play in swiss system this year, because there are many new teams in division 5 and it would be hard to split them into 3 groups up by their strongness fairly. I mean it would likely be in one group we have several strong teams and only one of them will get a chance to promote; in another group we may have several less strong teams, but one of them will also be promoted. Swiss system avoids this disadvantage as all the teams play in one group. From the other hand I aware the first two rounds with swiss system may group pairs of teams randomly, but after a month of playing I am sure they will took places by their strongness (pairs of teams for a current round will be determined at announcement date regardless of are games finished or not).

An advantage of the round system is: all the teams play within one group with the same set of teams, there is nothing random. A disadvantage: a distribution between groups will be random and may be unfair.

So there is a week left before the start of round 1. Please share your thoughts. If there are many voted for the round system it is not a problem to reconfigure teams next weekend. If all is ok with swiss system, we will follow it.

Thanks Serhii, my thoughts for Inverness Chess Club are that the Round set up would mean fewer games to fill which would be better for us as we are in 10 competitions with the WCL and ECL also due to start. We will be looking to cut back on some of the competitions when they are finish but in the mean time like to avoid taking on too many games. Just want to avoid burn out with the members in our small club.

Fully concur with the views of @martinhead3 Burn out is a big issue with smaller clubs. I've withdrawn Tayside Fife and Stirlingshire (aka Perth in ECL) from the WCL because our top rated players wished to limit their number in play matches. We simply ended up not being competitive against much larger teams. I'm happy being in Div 3 of the ECL. I think we would struggle to make rosters of 12 and 15. The Round approach seems the best way forward for Div 5 teams.

This is pretty much the question for Div.5 teams only to decide what they prefer.

As observer only, to me explanation and decision on why it's initially planned as Swiss makes perfect sense - number of rounds is not that much different, it's mostly a question if you are getting random opponents for first few rounds only (until results are stable and it becomes clear which are the stronger teams that should play against eachother in the final rounds) or for whole season if it's randomly divided into 3 groups. Playoffs at the end of season are not optimal because those matches couldn't complete timely for next season divisions setup - final rounds of the Swiss pairings may well be considered as playoffs, since winners of those matches will eventually have a chance to be promoted as top 3. Last 2 rounds are not very important for teams that are not fighting for top spots and promotion anyway (they could only be important for deciding next season Div.5 groups if division is moved to round-robin then).

I am from Lisbon, entering this year. I agree with the Swiss system, is much better. The random in first rounds, is equal to random in round system, is not a problem, and we get real teams, that desearve respect, even if one team lost all games. If some teams do not want so many games, the difference is not much, the Swiss system could be done with just 7 rounds, not ideal but the winner should play against the second at least.

The problem that I see about the Swiss system, is this: for making the second round, we do not have the final results of the first round. So, in a specific date after a round K start, we should use the current results of the round K, to make the round K+1. But, as the matches are over, the points should be updated. This should folow more or less the rules in the last rounds, to decide what team goes up division, are the current rules in 30 of setember. Here should be the same, but the final points should be updated,

So, for me, the Swiss system is much better, but will give more work to setup. It would be ok for me with the round system, of course. What we want is to play, and in case of Lisbon, more games is better than less games.

So what’s happening with this League? Is it staying the same or changing?

I am still waiting for thoughts and opinions to understand, which format is better for most teams. The decision will be published this saturday, October, 28th.

Hi Serhii, as there has been a lack of feedback from other teams, you do what suits your needs best. We will work with what is on the table and if people don't like it - tough!

Cheers and thanks

I think making more divisions would be a straightforward idea.
Have more promotion/relegation slots for these new divisions in order that they even the strength of teams out quicker after one season.

You can as the ‘director’ of this league place teams in the division you think they are best suited according to eg historical average size of teams fielded.

These divisions will continue through the years as 5 & 6 and will have the same format as the present divisions therefore no confusion or unforeseen circumstances.

I see we have 24 teams: so 3 x 8 team divisions, less games for smaller clubs.

I personally prefer divisions over Swiss tournaments, but I am happy with either option.

Hi everyone, I see the majority prefers 3 groups with 8 teams and 7 rounds, so tomorrow I will publish new division 5 group placement and schedule. The next day round 1 announcement will be presented.