Game vs FM CoolThing, parallel coolthing opening. I got whooped after opening mistake

Chaturanga Chess - RemovedUsername-24020301 vs coolthing - Play Chess Variants Online - Chess.com

Also to answer coolthing cuz i left too soon, i got it from a few games i found of yours, samuels and jonathan hiltons youtube

Does anyone know of sources for shatranj opening theory? I'll take anything, old or modern. I remember a Jonathan Hilton video referring to his lectures but I don't know how to find them, and I have no clue if there are any other published analyses of more modern theory, nor where to find them lol. I've read forums and theres some knowledge to gain from them, like the tabbiyat, puzzles, high level games to analyze, and Kindlycoach's youtube where he analyzes games and has a bit of more in depth opening analysis, as well as some books i dont remember the names of and cant yet afford, but i haven't found anything (although i think ive heard of its existence) on specific opening lines of certain tabbiyat, or more modern opening analysis. Would anyone know of anywhere to look?

Hey, thanks for the game! This happens to be my favorite opening (which as far as I know I'm the inventor of), so I'm very happy to see that you are enjoying it as well.

Most of the opening knowledge that we have today comes from the work of Shatranj players around 1000 years ago, some of which has been documented in Murray's "A History of Chess" - you can find it here: https://archive.org/details/AHistoryOfChess.

As for more modern opening theory, most of it you will find either in Jonathan Hilton's videos or on forums on chess.com. You could also look at games that other people played. There isn't any centralized opening resource of a similar caliber to Murray's book though.

@ RemovedUsername

Ah you got stormed by 'the Stormer'... LoL! It's an amazing tabiya imho, which gives - I think - the best activity for the Alfils in the opening. 12.Nd2?! I'm sure is not a great idea, I also made the same mistake in the past (Nd2 or Nd7 with Black). Perhaps you missed this forum.

Once there, I think it was better for you to accept the 'Alfil gambit' by playing 14.cxb4 rather than 14.Nb1, to move the Knight back home.

I agree with @coolthing about the available sources. Basically the only written analysis are those found in "A History of Chess". I'm trying to transpose them into diagrams (lil by lil)... They are mostly about the Mujannah, however there are also other tabiyat. Page 258 is about the Mashaiki but unfortunately it is not readable. '((

Hi, thank you guys @coolthing @samuelebeckis for the information on where to find information on shatranj, and for the insight on coolthings infamous opening lol. I did some "studying" before the forum (which I believe I read long ago but slipped my memory) and I think I came up with some draw (ish?) lines, at least in the way we played, that leads me to believe 13. Kc2 was a blunder, and that I should've gambited my alfil first with 13. Ic5. I'm not sure if these lines are correct, but I hope you guys have as much fun studying them as I do lol

Line 1 - Passed A pawn variation

1. g5-g6 .. h10-h9
2. f5-f6 .. g10-g9
3. e5-e6 .. f10-f9
4. d5-d6 .. e10-e9
5. h5-h6 .. d10-d9
6. g6-g7 .. i10-i9
7. i5-i6 .. g9-g8
8. Fh4-i5 .. d9-d8
9. d6-d7 .. Fh11-i10
10. Ii4-g6 .. Nj11-h10
11. If4-d6 .. If11-d9
12. Ne4-g5 .. Ii11-g9
13. Id6-f8 .. Ig9-e7
14. h6-h7 .. Ne11-g10
15. If8xNh10 .. Ie7xNg5
16. Ih10-f8 .. Ig5-e7
17. f6xIe7 .. d8xe7
18. Ig6-e8 .. f9xIe8
19. d7xe8 .. e9xIf8
20. e8xId9

Line 2 - Exchange Variation

1. g5-g6 .. h10-h9
2. f5-f6 .. g10-g9
3. e5-e6 .. f10-f9
4. d5-d6 .. e10-e9
5. h5-h6 .. d10-d9
6. g6-g7 .. i10-i9
7. i5-i6 .. g9-g8
8. Fh4-i5 .. d9-d8
9. d6-d7 .. Fh11-i10
10. Ii4-g6 .. Nj11-h10
11. If4-d6 .. If11-d9
12. Ne4-g5 .. Ii11-g9
13. Id6-f8 .. Ig9-e7
14. If8xNh10 .. Ie7xNg5
15. Kg4xIg5 .. Kg11xIh10

Line 3 - Double alfil gambit accepted

1. g5-g6 .. h10-h9
2. f5-f6 .. g10-g9
3. e5-e6 .. f10-f9
4. d5-d6 .. e10-e9
5. h5-h6 .. d10-d9
6. g6-g7 .. i10-i9
7. i5-i6 .. g9-g8
8. Fh4-i5 .. d9-d8
9. d6-d7 .. Fh11-i10
10. Ii4-g6 .. Nj11-h10
11. If4-d6 .. If11-d9
12. Ne4-g5 .. Ii11-g9
13. Id6-f8 .. e9xIf8
14. g7xf8 .. Ig9-e7
15. f6xIe7 .. d8xe7
16. Nj4-h5 .. Ne11-g10
17. Rd4-f4

@samuelebeckis I'm hopefully going to be researching shatranj more as time goes on so if I come by any more intact sources of information or compile any of my own you'll likely be the first to know, especially since I'm far newer to shatranj than you guys lol. Sometimes I like to think that if there ever comes literature that delves extensively into shatranj that it would be at least partly influenced by this club or members in it. I wish you luck on your transpositions and research

should clarify that when i said "before the forum" i meant before i read the forum lol

I wonder what the pioneers of shatranj would think about @coolthing s tabbiyat, or maybe if they even recorded it (or something similar) but it was lost to time, or its old knowledge faded into the hands of a few?

I don't think there is anything in "the hands of a few". I run just a small list of sources that I know under here:

A History of Chess by H.J.Murray I'm sure is the most detailed and complete (although it is more than one century old). I think Murray accurately searched and translated every existing arabian manuscript on Shatranj. Some of them refers to other works which have never been found, so probably a huge part of that literature was lost.

The Oxford Companion to Chess is an encyclopedia book that, at the name "Shatranj", gives a relatively long description, including a couple of opening lines. It was my very first source (found for free in pdf format).

A History of Chess (..) by Yury Averbakh is a recent discovery for me. I'll definitely read it, I think it's very interesting on historical information and research, but - perhaps - not much about Shatranj strategies.

A World of Chess (..) by Cazaux and Knowlton is another big book containing interesting things about Shatranj. It's for sale, but I could read some pdf fragments for free. I forgot I wanted to buy it!

I found also some little sources in Italian and Spanish which I don't remember the names exactly, but they really add nothing to the previous ones.

My tabiya was initially inspired by the Jaish ("army"), which was known to ancient Shatranj players.

However, this tabiya was not considered to be one of the better tabiyat available (as recorded in Murray's book, the greatest Shatranj player in history, As-Suli, gave a list of reputable tabiyat and did not include this among them). The reasoning is not recorded anywhere, but a few of the drawbacks of the Jaish tabiya are pretty easy to guess. Most importantly, a complete Jaish takes 20 moves to construct! For comparison, the more reputable tabiyat like the Mujannah and Sayyal take only 12 moves to construct.

My tabiya can be considered a modernization of the Jaish. If you look at some of my games, you'll notice that I usually reach the following setup:

This can be considered the starting point of my tabiya, and if you count the moves, you will find that it takes 12 moves to reach this position. Compared to the Jaish, many of the developing moves are missing, particularly on the ferz-side. The result is a very fast-paced and dynamic tabiya that aims to play on the shah-side.

Returning to your original question of what ancient masters would have thought of it, they probably would not have been too impressed, considering their poor evaluation of the Jaish. That said, today we have the advantage of 1000 years of shatranj and chess theory, some of which does carry over. Engine analysis seems to indicate that my tabiya is alright, which is good enough for me.

If you copied the moves from the PGN, I think they use the coordinates of a 14x14 board. Since we only play on an 8x8 board (which chess.com takes to be the "center" of the 14x14 board), the moves are unfortunately not intelligible in this format. I'd recommend copying down the moves as recorded in the game rather than from the PGN.

Ahhh thank you, I was wondering why it seemed like the notation was weird but I didn't have the knowledge to know how lol, thank you. I'll update this thread when I've gotten the actual moves and not just the PGN

Compiled. These are the lines I played around with:

Line 1 - Double alfil gambit, double accepted (updated it cuz i'm pretty sure 16. Ne2 allows more counterplay from black than Ke2)

1. d3 e6

2. c3 d6

3. b3 c6

4. a3 b6

5. e3 a6

6. d4 f6

7. f3 d5

8. Ff2 a5

9. a4 Ff7

10. Id3 Ne7

11. Ia3 Ia6

12. Nd2 Id6

13. Ic5 bxc5

14. dxc5 Ib4

15. cxb4 axb4

16. Ke2 Nd7

17. Rc1 e5

18. e4

Line 2 - Dark square alfil and knight exchange

1. d3 e6

2. c3 d6

3. b3 c6

4. a3 b6

5. e3 a6

6. d4 f6

7. f3 d5

8. Ff2 a5

9. a4 Ff7

10. Id3 Ne7

11. Ia3 Ia6

12. Nd2 Id6

13. Ic5 Ib4

14. Ixe7 Ixd2

15. Kxd2 Kxe7

Line 3 - Passed a pawn line

1. d3 e6

2. c3 d6

3. b3 c6

4. a3 b6

5. e3 a6

6. d4 f6

7. f3 d5

8. Ff2 a5

9. a4 Ff7

10. Id3 Ne7

11. Ia3 Ia6

12. Nd2 Id6

13. Ic5 Ib4

14. e4 Nd7

15. Ixe7 Ixd2

16. Ic5 Ib4

17. cxb4 axb4

18. Ib5 cxb5

19. axb5 bxc5

20. bxa6

Thanks for 'translating' the moves.

Ah you insist with Nd2, well okay... Anyway I think 13.Ac5 deserves a full question mark: what's the benefit of it for White? Black just takes and gains a pawn majority in the centre.

Perhaps you have read something about the importance of the 'sayyal pawn' in c5, which is correct (imo), but it should be protected by another pawn in b4 or d4. In your example it is completely isolated and White engages a Rook to defend it.

Then you can see, at move #18, Black has better development, larger room for manoeuvres, better pawn structure and safer King. There is still counter-play for White, so I find it of some interest, however I would not recommend it.

In the 2nd and 3rd example Black refuses the 'Alfil gambit' (why?) and proposes a Knight exchange after which the game is pretty equal. However I think I would instinctively avoid to exchange my Knight in that way. I don't know, it looks a bit weird to me, and even weirder when both Alfils come back after capturing the Knights.

Just my thought, but perhaps others think differently...

Completely agree with @samuelebeckis.

Here is a game of mine (with samuelebeckis, coincidentally) that has similar ideas as your first variation: https://www.chess.com/variants/chaturanga/game/45914967/0/3, which led to a very interesting middlegame with chances for both sides.

Ah wow, me too I sacrificed the Alfil in c5! Thanks @coolthing, I couldn't remember that game... We all make the same mistakes apparently!! In that case probably I was frustrated for not finding a nice development for my king-Knight.

Info: There's a Chaturanga tournament going on soon! Let me check better...

Top computers prefer a tabiya like this (both white and black would be ~3600+ in chess.com variants blitz rating). Personally, though, I find it unintuitive and easy to mess up.