Have you heard of the "mystery"? - Chess Forums

Fischer-of-Men

Sep 1, 2014

0

#1

The church is not Israel, and Israel is not the church. The true church of this age was unknown until revealed to Paul. It was a secret in the mind of God.

Most Christians make the mistake of calling Pentecost the "birth of the church" (despite over whelming evidence to the contrary). In the Body of Christ, salvation is not through water baptism or any other work. It is through placing one's faith in the cross work of Christ alone. This is "Paul's gospel". Paul's message & ministry was differant than that of the 12 "circumcision apostles". Our commission today is to make known Paul's "gospel of the UNcircumcision", where Jew & Gentile are reconciled to God in one body through faith alone. No works, rituals or ordinances.

Discover the "mystery" (Eph 3:3. Romans 16:25, et al). Follow Paul as he followed Christ!

GentleWarrior

Sep 3, 2014

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#2

Actually, salvation is not placing one's faith on the cross. The cross was an instrument of torture that the Romans chose to kill its enemies. Our salvation is placing our faith in the Lord who died on a cross and rose from the dead 3 days later...

The gospel is attributed to the Lord Jesus not Paul or anyone else. It is the Lord who taught Paul what the good news were. This is best revealed in 2Cor 5:19 where it says, "Namely, that God was in Christ reconciling the world to Himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and He has committed to us the word of reconciliation." (NAU)

Anyone who preaches the good news of Jesus Christ must have also learned it at the Lord's feet.

I know that Israel is not the church and the church is not Israel, but I would like to know if you could expand on this area a bit more so that we can know how exactly you see the place of Jesus in both the Old and the New Testament.

Lastly, what's the overwhelming evidence that the church was not born in Pentecost? If not, where was the church born then and what was the purpose of Pentecost?

Let’s not forget that the Baptism of the Spirit of God that fell upon 120 believers in Acts 2 for the first time in all history. God made these believers a new temple made without hands where He began to make His abode in believers after the Lord ascended to the throne of glory and sat down at the right hand of the Majesty on High, (Mark 15:58, Jn 14:20, 23, 17:21, Acts 2:1-4, Col 1:27, etc.)

Fischer-of-Men

Sep 5, 2014

0

#3

Thank you for the respectful response. So much to respond to!

First, by "the cross work of Christ", I am using an accepted term designed to clarify and distinguish Paul's gospel from "another gospel" which could be (and is) termed "perverted". This would include mixing pure grace with a gospel intended for another dispensation which would, say, include water baptism for remission of sins and disregards Christ's death, burial and resurrection as the object of faith. Many churches pervert the gospel in this way. We needn't name names.

But please don't misunderstand. Paul did not dream up his "gospel of the grace of God". It did indeed come from Christ who revealed it to Paul "by revelation", as you accurately pointed out. Many sincere believers think Paul preached the same gospel to the Gentiles as the 12 were preaching to the Jews. But Paul's message was new in the sense that it was revealed to him first as the chosen revelator of the dispensation of grace (the church age) in which we are presently living. It is Paul's "office" as apostle of the Gentiles which me magnify, not the man. This is being established in the word of God "rightly divided".

In the Old Testament (of which Matthew thru John are a mere continuation) the Lord is seen as the blessed, anointed one. The Messiah. He was the culmination of all the Old Testament looked forward to: The King and His Kingdom of Heaven on earth. Based in Jerusalem with His 12 apostles sitting on thrones judging the 12 tribes of Israel (not the church).

Nothing changed in early Acts. A galnce at Acts 2 will reveal Peter is not preaching that Jesus died for our sins and that by simple faith in this we will be saved. He is not preaching about the "birthday of the church", he is preaching to "men of Israel" about the "last days" (of prophecy). He is still demanding the repentance of Israel and demanding water baptism (a "work") as the required evidence of their faith. Understand, salvation wasn't through faith + nothing (as it is today).And there was nothing magically in the water, but neither was there salvation without water. This is Law, not grace. Peter still has Israel's Kingdom in view. The church, the Body of Christ was still a "secret" for about another dozen years when Paul is saved to herald this new dispensation, apart from Israel and Law. It isn't until Israel's program has been "set aside", and the Jew also "alienated" that Jew and Gentile could be reconciled together in "one body". One "new man". "Reconciliation" postulates an alienation first, and Israel was not yet set aside at Pentecost. Peter is still offering the Kingdom in chapter 3. As we agree, the church is not Israel, and Israel is not the church. Peter knew that. So in the so-called New Testament (or more particularly in Paul's epistles), Christ is seen as the Head of the church, which is His body. It is a parenthetical age for us. Our hope is in the heavens, not in Jerusalem. That is to say, upon completion of this age, when "the fullness of the Gentiles be come in", Christ will rapture His church to heaven and return physically to Jerusalem and the prophesied days of the Kingdom will be realized. Today we live in an UNprophesied age, not known until revealed to Paul for us, through revelation of Christ. So whereas the Bible does not specifically say when the church began, there is a lot of evidence which logically points us to Paul's unique message and ministry as the start of something new. The shift began either in Acts 9 or 13. Thats is how I see it.

I have a book which gives 26 reasons why the Body of Christ "church" could NOT have begun on the Jewish Holiday of Pentecost, but to save space, checkout this page if you are interested: http://graceambassadors.com/midacts/did-the-church-begin-at-pentecost