How to Unite Indians? -- An inter-group discussion.

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Avatar of vijay_phanidhar
amrita1 wrote: Reminding the history while supporting the stand of your own group &forgetting the history owing to your own convenience when you want to criticize only the existence of  smaller groups is not the right attitude either ,for supporting the positive discussions !

Everyone is supporting the stand of their own group isn't that the problem in the first place? Any team without the name Bharat doesn't appeal to you and that is your stand. You even left TI because you don't like the name India. We felt TI was the right name and supported it. We are all doing the same thing i.e. supporting the cause of our own teams. There is no need to specifically point at TI in this regard. And yes smaller teams are also part of the problem. TI and IM won't give up on their teams unless all smaller teams promise to not to divert the attention of Indians from the united team now and in the future. I wasn't criticizing but was posing questions as food for thought so that members can discuss on those issues.

Avatar of vijay_phanidhar

@ dermi (post #9), Some of the problems that come to mind: 1. We have to wait for several years, 2. During that time we are still playing weakened teams in the leagues, 3. There is no guarantee that one team will emerge after few years (for e.g. there could be two strong teams), 4. We rather play some other teams as one team instead of playing each other.

@ Jigar (post  #14), Some practical issues: 1. In some big team matches, we have members ranging from 2200+ to 1200. If we divide groups according to rating, we can’t have those matches, 2. Vote Chess is a good learning process so it would be good to have high rated players as well as low rated players in the same match, 3. Ratings can keep changing, 4. Goes against our goal of having a united group.

@ tkv (post #19), May be they didn’t anticipate that Indians can create so much complications to themselves Smile. All other countries seem to be doing fine.

Avatar of dermi

we can also do that whichever team will do best in 2012 (all matches till august 2012)will be automatically qualified for AL & WL because matches starting after that will not be complete till december 2012.

Avatar of Jigar-inactive

@Vijay , Team Match is not an issue, as all groups will play only the TM of their range.. wide range TM can be joined through our major group (IM / TI).

According to me VC will be the best advantage for us. Because all players (For. Ex. Low rated Group) will have a good team of Admins and they will guide them to improve their chess and to take best advantage though VC Games.

Avatar of amrita1
vijay_phanidhar wrote:
amrita1 wrote: Reminding the history while supporting the stand of your own group &forgetting the history owing to your own convenience when you want to criticize only the existence of  smaller groups is not the right attitude either ,for supporting the positive discussions !

Everyone is supporting the stand of their own group isn't that the problem in the first place? Any team without the name Bharat doesn't appeal to you and that is your stand. You even left TI because you don't like the name India. We felt TI was the right name and supported it. We are all doing the same thing i.e. supporting the cause of our own teams. There is no need to specifically point at TI in this regard. And yes smaller teams are also part of the problem. TI and IM won't give up on their teams unless all smaller teams promise to not to divert the attention of Indians from the united team now and in the future. I wasn't criticizing but was posing questions as food for thought so that members can discuss on those issues.

Supporting the stand of your own team is never objectionable ,but critisizing the existence of specific teams forgetting the  stand taken by your own team when they were just few hundreds can't be acceptable !If you are specifying the names of certain teams ,you should not feel insulted when they specify the name of your own team !BTW,i have joined this discussion group even though it has "India" in it's name !!!

Here,we are supposed to carry  out discussions for all groups considering them equal !This view is necessary to keep the discussion group neutral !

All the teams, how so ever big or small they are ,are always free to express their own stands & views on this issue irrespective of their sizes or other criterias !

Avatar of BH143
I got an idea to unite all Indian Teams . This idea can keep Indian Teams status (Rankings) . We can make "United India" as a group to promote best Indian team to play in International Leagues based on the ranking. To workout this condition we can set rules as ... 1) United India is represented as a group of Indian Teams. 2) United India lists all Indian Teams from top to bottom based on rankings. 3) It is necessary all Indian players to join in all Indian teams existing in chess.com.( This brings the unity of a team ) 4) United India allows only one Indian Team ( The team that is ranked top among all Indian Teams ) to play in International Leagues. This conditions can keep the status of Indian Teams . Indian Team will not be unranked.
Avatar of amrita1
BH101 wrote:
I got an idea to unite all Indian Teams . This idea can keep Indian Teams status (Rankings) . We can make "United India" as a group to promote best Indian team to play in International Leagues based on the ranking. To workout this condition we can set rules as ... 1) United India is represented as a group of Indian Teams. 2) United India lists all Indian Teams from top to bottom based on rankings. 3) It is necessary all Indian players to join in all Indian teams existing in chess.com.( This brings the unity of a team ) 4) United India allows only one Indian Team ( The team that is ranked top among all Indian Teams ) to play in International Leagues. This conditions can keep the status of Indian Teams . Indian Team will not be unranked.

 

         i think ,this criteria of sanctioning the team based on ranking is applied  by the organizers of league matches itself !There is no need of any special group for it !

          since only one team is allowed to play ,it may resolve the conflict but  by passes the concept of unity !

Avatar of MahendraVeeru

@Jigar,

After considering your suggestion of forming 6 groups of different ratings, the purpose behind it is positive, that improves chess of all players’. But, if we consider the cause and effect relationship from it, it inherently includes the division on rating basis i.e. top players and low rated players. And possibility of might not achieve our purpose “unity” fully.

There is many ways of improves our chess skill, i.e. by joining different groups (including united Indian team) for improving chess skill and playing Team Matches and Vote Chess from that group also, participate in different activities/forums of different groups on improvement of chess or ratings, etc.

We need only one and unique team to represent our nation to achieve “Unity”, and in which all Indian members should respect other Indian member willfully.

Avatar of sumedhgupte
amrita1 wrote:
!BTW,i have joined this discussion group even though it has "India" in it's name !!!

I appreciate you for doing so.It must have been very embarrassing for you to stay in such group.I'm very much inspired from you. 

Avatar of sumedhgupte
amrita1 wrote:

Here,we are supposed to carry  out discussions for all groups considering them equal !This view is necessary to keep the discussion group neutral !

 

However,you've always considered 'BHARAT' greater than all other groups.Even if someone shares anything here,you feel that person is insulting your group.Whenever there's a discussion of uniting everyone into one single Indian group,you always either criticize others,or talk about your group,but have never given your opinion about the actual topic.

Avatar of amrita1
sumedhgupte wrote:
amrita1 wrote:

Here,we are supposed to carry  out discussions for all groups considering them equal !This view is necessary to keep the discussion group neutral !

 

However,you've always considered 'BHARAT' greater than all other groups.Even if someone shares anything here,you feel that person is insulting your group.Whenever there's a discussion of uniting everyone into one single Indian group,you always either criticize others,or talk about your group,but have never given your opinion about the actual topic.


Please point out a single sentence where i have used any comparitive terms for any groups !

If some one criticizes the existence of other groups depending upon their size ,they are the one who feel insulted when others remind themof their own history !

Whenever i have given my opinion upon any one else ,it reflects my line of my thinking also!

Instead of giving my personal opinion ,which i have already stated in the past in the discussions of TI at length & which i am not at all interested in repeating ,i shall go with the stand that our group BHARAT  will take in this issue !

The stand of group BHARAT will be declared very soon !Please don't worry about it !

Avatar of amrita1
sumedhgupte wrote:
amrita1 wrote:
!BTW,i have joined this discussion group even though it has "India" in it's name !!!

I appreciate you for doing so.It must have been very embarrassing for you to stay in such group.I'm very much inspired from you. 


I am used to this embarassment  after spending so many days in TI just keeping in mind the  concepts of communication between the groups  !Frown

If you are really inspired,please carry it on in accepting the name "Bharat "if ever the common team comes to represent our country !

Avatar of Skand
ashwath wrote:
It would be wrong to judge people, just by looking at their chess.com profile! But my opinion about the unification is that, it'd be impossible to unify the teams... Unless the SAs of all the major teams, bury the hatchet.. And starts respecting one another and the teams as a whole. And how would this be possible?? 'million dollar question' only if someone in either side of the groups... Initiates it personally. And only if there is goodwill between the sides.. Until then it is impossible.. (any other solution will not work out) cheers..:) -ashwath

I agree with ashwath that we need goodwill between groups, else there is no hope of unification. Any ideas what more can be done? Vijay Phanidhar has sent personal invitation to many admins. Some have joined this discussion, some have not. 

If there is no unification, things will continue as they are right now. Our performance in Team India for example, is very unpredictable. Most of us can take pride in the fact that India is among top 15 in team matches leaderboard. Hopefully we will be among top 10 soon. But at the same time we can't even be sure that we will beat Turkey every time we play against them! It is in such cases that unity among us will really show it's usefulness.

Unity is not just for AL and WL. Therefore forming a group just for AL/WL is not an answer. In any case next year this matter should get resolved. Besides, AL and WL are not the only important matches. Unity is for matches against all nation based groups even in the "friendlies". Similarly unity is also needed to beat groups like TPOC, Team 54, Fast Payers etc who are really strong. We can and should beat them consistently - but it is not happening as playing strength is divided among groups. Not only should we beat them, the points thus gained should help  India in moving up the ladder. If these winnings are spread over different groups, then again unification will not achieve what we had set out to gain to begin with.

Avatar of dermi

+1 for skand post 33

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Avatar of dermi

if about name  BHARAT then we can short out by as team Iraq and many other have done

http://www.chess.com/groups/view/--team-iraq

Avatar of Jigar-inactive

@ thelandlesslabourer, I think we are here to improve our chess and to have fun not for VC points and TM points and to attend big TM.

I've mentioned that in addition to splitting the groups one major group will be there of open range which will include all Indian players. Plus, splitting will not create an issue, infact through Forums and VC Games all players could have been mentored by the Admins of the Respected groups which will help them to improve their chess perfomance.

And Acc. to me if we are here to find a solution then this can be the only option. Because other option is to cancel all other Indian groups by keeping one (the oldest) as it is. Which seems not practical to others (I don't know why?) .

Avatar of Aksh1

Why arent the IM SA's joining.? 
without them all these discussions are just waste.

Avatar of dermi

even though members are withdrawing also, till now 3 members have withdrawn.

chesoholic, jigar and ???