you have no right to compare them i have won against you before
me?
The way you wrote it. You might not have intended it by you were basically implying it is extremely surprising that a women of all things is tenth place in a 14 person tournament.
Let's look at the quote, shall we?
"He is currently in 11th out of 14 contestants, and even behind the 2549 rated Ju Wenjun, a woman"
Nothing in here expresses shock or surprise at the placement of Ju Wenjun because she is a woman. The only term that adds any shock to the sentence is when he said 'even', but that could just be talking about the rating or the placement. "A woman" is simply a statement of fact. It is surprising that a woman made it into the top 15, because of how rare it is. Even focusing on that, it's not sexist because of simply how surprising it is.
There is nothing objective about the grammar or phrasing that could be considered 'sexist'. Make sure you actually have something to back up your claims before calling someone sexist please
@Six_Pack_Of_Flabs Sure, what you said was factual, but the original comment "He is currently in 11th out of 14 contestants, and even behind the 2549 rated Ju Wenjun, a woman" was sexist, albeit not full blown sexism but rather a microaggression. Adding on the comment "a woman" was not necessary to conveying his point and seems to be added to degrade her or Ding Liren, the fact that Ju Wenjun is a woman had nothing to do with the point he was making. These types of adding ons are the most common types of microaggressions/subtle discrimination based on my experiences and the experiences of other. Whether this is intentional or not, I don't know, it's almost impossible to tell on an online platform, but evidently he didn't mean to be sexist as shown by his later comments.
As for what others are saying about Ding Liren being "a fraud", I don't know what you mean by this, but he won the world championship fair and square, albeit in a strange way. His dominance may not be as great as Magnus's (I doubt anyone will be as dominant as him), but it is too early to tell and as others have mentioned he has been suffering from mental issues which have been affecting his performance. I hope he is able to get back to playing peak level chess!
@Six_Pack_Of_Flabs Sure, what you said was factual, but the original comment "He is currently in 11th out of 14 contestants, and even behind the 2549 rated Ju Wenjun, a woman" was sexist, albeit not full blown sexism but rather a microaggression. Adding on the comment "a woman" was not necessary to conveying his point and seems to be added to degrade her or Ding Liren, the fact that Ju Wenjun is a woman had nothing to do with the point he was making. These types of adding ons are the most common types of microaggressions/subtle discrimination based on my experiences and the experiences of other. Whether this is intentional or not, I don't know, it's almost impossible to tell on an online platform, but evidently he didn't mean to be sexist as shown by his later comments.
I'm probably making this to be way bigger than it needs to be, but I disagree.
You claim the sentence was sexist, albeit a microaggression, but that's not true.
There's nothing that indicates her being a woman has anything to do with his shock at Ding's placement. It was extraneous information, yes, but there was nothing in his statement that assigned blame to her gender. As there's nothing in the grammar that can objectively point to assigned blame, it's left up to the intent of the writer. You can interpret it as sexist all you want, but because there is no objective way to prove he was being sexist, it's all subjective and groundless.
I do agree with you that Ding isn't a fraud though. He won fair and square.
@Six_Pack_Of_Flabs Sure, what you said was factual, but the original comment "He is currently in 11th out of 14 contestants, and even behind the 2549 rated Ju Wenjun, a woman" was sexist, albeit not full blown sexism but rather a microaggression. Adding on the comment "a woman" was not necessary to conveying his point and seems to be added to degrade her or Ding Liren, the fact that Ju Wenjun is a woman had nothing to do with the point he was making. These types of adding ons are the most common types of microaggressions/subtle discrimination based on my experiences and the experiences of other. Whether this is intentional or not, I don't know, it's almost impossible to tell on an online platform, but evidently he didn't mean to be sexist as shown by his later comments.
I'm probably making this to be way bigger than it needs to be, but I disagree.
You claim the sentence was sexist, albeit a microaggression, but that's not true.
There's nothing that indicates her being a woman has anything to do with his shock at Ding's placement. It was extraneous information, yes, but there was nothing in his statement that assigned blame to her gender. As there's nothing in the grammar that can objectively point to assigned blame, it's left up to the intent of the writer. You can interpret it as sexist all you want, but because there is no objective way to prove he was being sexist, it's all subjective and groundless.
I do agree with you that Ding isn't a fraud though. He won fair and square.
I do agree that you can't objectively prove that he was being sexist, and you make some very good points. These types of areas are always up to interpretation and I feel personally that the common opinions / overall consensus of the world (eg status quo) is usually the interpretation that ends up being the most influential, even though there is not objective proof of discrimination. I feel that I share the common opinion in this case, which is unfortunately the singular most important thing with the continually developing "cancel culture" etc. So, even if you can't objectively prove that he was being sexist, unfortunately the common opinion will be that he was, which is sad to see.
Bro give the guy a break, you even said it yourself, he hasn't played in a year. I think rather than trying to call out someone who has dedicated his life and mental health(which I believe is one of the reasons he wants to retire) a fraud is simply a horrible thing to do. You should be thankful for his contributions and hopeful that he does continue to compete. Ding Liren does deserve to be World Champion and on a side note you can be less sexist.
how was i sexist again?
You weren't. But its easy to argue since in your message you do seem to imply men are better than women, ", a woman". Though you were being sexist so they might have a point lol.
I find it so dumb when people go "You're not high enough elo you can't make judgments"
Chess ELO has absolutely nothing to do when judging character, or game legitimacy.
Ok I hate to be that guy, but Ding hasn't played at all in major tournaments since becoming world champion nearly a year ago now until the Tata Steel, he is currently in 11th out of 14 contestants, and even behind the 2549 rated Ju Wenjun, a woman. It concerns me that the "World Champion" can't dominate these tournaments that some of the world's best aren't even playing in (Magnus and Fabi). Is Ding really deserving of his title as world champion??
bro is fr judging his entire status based off of one tournament
Thank you everyone for your thoughts and also I love the "debates" that occured in the forum, it encouraged me to see that many people still know how to present and defend an argument in a polite way.
For claryfication I never though Ding was a fraud, as he clearly won fairly, I just wanted opinions-which i got.
| [ I Don't know if it's necessary to talk about gender here, Ding Liren is deserving of the world champion title, because he did win but, maybe he just hasn't played chess in a while, so that's why he's not so good in TATA steel,
but I think Right now, the Womens world champion might be better than the male champion, which has never happened before.
I find it so dumb when people go "You're not high enough elo you can't make judgments"
Chess ELO has absolutely nothing to do when judging character, or game legitimacy."
wonder why its always lower-rated players taking offense, look in the mirror before you start spitting vitriol... at no elo do you get to judge people without coming off as an asshole. as soon as you start your opinion is just pointless. Maybe the best in the world could have the right to do so, but he would come off as an asshole either way. and he most likely would not , because he knows best how much hard work there is behind this achievement.
So when even the regular top players dont get this right why should you? work on your chess, or dont, thats up to you but stop bringing others down just for the sake of it. you are not worthy of it. and you never will be.
Chess ELO is not an accurate representation of anything but chess skill. I would keep this belief if I was the best player in the world, or the worst, because it is objectively true. I did not make any statements about what OP said, all I said is that it's annoying that people tell someone their opinion is invalid because their virtual number on an online website wasn't high enough.
I've seen various people, especially in the Kramnik threads, using that as a defense, as a way to discredit the opinions of those stating actual numerical values. It's stupid. Stop using ELO as a judge-all factor when people are talking about aspects of life not directly related to the game of chess.
And what the heck are you talking about in that last paragraph?
The way you wrote it. You might not have intended it by you were basically implying it is extremely surprising that a women of all things is tenth place in a 14 person tournament.
Let's look at the quote, shall we?
"He is currently in 11th out of 14 contestants, and even behind the 2549 rated Ju Wenjun, a woman"
"He is currently in 11th out of 14 contestants, and even behind... a woman."
Don't edit the quote like that, it changes the meaning.
In the original sentence, the way it was worded put the disbelief on the rating of the person, not her gender.
Of course removing that will make it seem sexist, but he did not say "He is currently 11th out of 14 contestants, and even behind a woman" did he?
you have no right to compare them i have won against you before