Nice text, John, especially with the verses you shared. This time I won`t express my opinion about it, I`ll just admire Jesus Christ and the perfect verses you shared.
Yes, there is no contradiction in God`s Word and I`ll wait to hear what Paul has to tell us about it, as I respect his understanding of God`s Word so much.
Thanks again for your initiative because we will learn through all that as we ask Jesus Christ to reveal the required knowledge to us.
Thank you John. Amen to humility and love.
You ask the questions, 'Does a new creation in Christ have sin? Or is that something that has been washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ when the person was born again?'
To know the answers to your questions one needs to understand the answer to, what means a new Creation In CHRIST? And, what is the correct understanding of being released from our sins by The Blood Of JESUS? I believe that both have the same answer.
...Therefore if any man is In CHRIST, a New Creature; the old things passed away; behold, New things have come. Now all things are From GOD , WHO Reconciled us to HIMSELF Through CHRIST, and Gave us the Ministry of Reconciliation, namely, that GOD was In CHRIST Reconciling the world to HIMSELF, not counting their trespasses against them, and HE has Committed to us The Word of Reconciliation... 2 Corinthians 5:17-19.
'If' is a small but absolute defining word. 'Granting one is In CHRIST, a new Creature, a new Creation, this is one who is born again. Born again is from fleshly to Spiritual, and this is essential that one may begin to see to perceive matters pertaining to GOD (John 3:3). This is when one believed on The Name of The LORD JESUS CHRIST, confessed with their mouth and believed in their heart; though Scripture tells us that there are those of this number who will, though the course of life, fall away for one reason or another (Luke 8:4-21, 2 Peter 2, 1 John 2:18-19, Jude). This cannot be ignored.
Then there is this Scripture, which holds statement to a fact and to the effect of that fact; which is, faith Saves. For by it (faith) men of old gained Approval. Hebrews 11:2.
..."The word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart" - that is, the Word of faith which we are preaching, that if you confess with your mouth JESUS LORD, and believe in your heart that GOD Raised HIM from the dead, you shall be Saved; for with the heart man believes, resulting in Righteousness, and with the mouth he confesses, resulting in Salvation. For the Scripture Says, "Whoever believes in HIM will not be disappointed." Romans 10:8-11.
To confess with your mouth JESUS LORD, means to acknowledge JESUS As MASTER, OWNER, which can only mean it must be a continual confession; from faith and toward faith (Habakkuk 2:4, 1 Corinthians 6:19-20, Acts 20:28, 2 Peter 2:1-3), and the mouth speaks from that which fills the heart; Luke 6:39-49.
Believing in the heart means to be persuaded of, to place complete confidence in, from the seat of what governs the spirit in a man (the heart), and so becomes the wills, the wants, the words and the characteristics expressed by that living soul and through the members of his body; resulting in Righteousness.
Now may The GOD Of Peace HIMSELF Sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be Preserved Complete, without blame at The Coming Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST. 1 Thessalonians 5:23.
"You will know them by their fruits."
MY son, do not forget MY teaching, But let your heart keep MY Commandments; for length of days and years of life, And Peace they will add to you. Do not let kindness and truth leave you; Bind them around your neck, Write them on the tablet of your heart. So you will find favour and good repute In The Sight Of GOD and man. Trust in The LORD with all your heart, And do not lean on your own understanding. In all your ways acknowledge HIM, And HE will Make your paths straight. Do not be wise in your own eyes; Fear The LORD and turn away from evil. It will be Healing to your body and refreshment to your bones... Proverbs 3:1-8.
So confession with the mouth results in Salvation: The Saving Of GOD from The Wrath Of GOD. This can only mean what is spoken of in Scripture is of a continual confession which results in Salvation. Or, having faith to the Preserving of the soul;
Therefore, do not throw away your confidence, which has Great Reward. For you have need of endurance, so that when you have done The Will Of GOD, you may Receive what was Promised.
For yet in a very little while, HE WHO Is Coming Will Come, and will not delay. But MY Righteous one shall live by faith; and if he shrinks back, MY Soul has no Pleasure in him.
But we are not of those who shrink back to destruction, but of those who have faith to the Preserving of the soul.
Now faith is the assurance of things hoped for, the conviction of things not seen. Hebrews 10:35 - 11:1.
Here, faith expressed in Hebrews 11:1 is continuation of The faith spoken of in the preceeding verses of chapter 10.
Hebrews 11:1 is stating to us now; Moreover, conviction of the Truth, borne out in our living according to the Truth, is The Foundation (1 Corinthians 3:10-11), the steadfastness of mind in Hope, the proof of what GOD, In CHRIST, Has Accomplished. Then verse 2 maintains that by faith men of old gained approval...
Obedience of faith, through which GOD Works in the believer.
"I AM The True Vine, and MY FATHER Is The Vinedresser. "Every branch in ME that does not bear Fruit, HE Takes Away; and every branch that bears Fruit, HE Prunes (Cleanses) it, that it may bear more Fruit. "You are already clean because of The Word which I have Spoken To you. "Abide in ME, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit of itself, unless it abides in the vine, so neither you, unless you abide In ME. "I AM The Vine, you are the branches; he who abides in ME, and I In him, he bears much Fruit; for apart from ME you can do nothing. "If anyone does not abide In ME, he is Thrown Away as a branch, and dries up; and they gather them, and cast them into the fire, and they are burned. John 15:1-6 (Matthew 13:24-43).
Written in Luke 17 is when the Apostles said to The LORD, "Increase our faith!" The LORD then Answers them, Speaking of obedience in answer to their pleading (v 1-10).
We often think Scripture is telling us what we have already obtained, when it is telling us first what is Required, that we may indeed obtain The Promises Of GOD In CHRIST JESUS. John chapter 10 is an example of such mistaken understanding of Scripture.
The Christian walk is a continual walk; this is The Gospel Of JESUS CHRIST,
For I am not ashamed of The Gospel, for It is The Power Of GOD For Salvation To everyone who believes, To the Jew first and also to the Greek (Gentile). For in It ( The Gospel) Righteousness Of GOD Is Revealed from faith to faith; as it is Written, "But the Righteous shall live by faith." Romans 1:16-17.
Here it is stated, Righteousness Is Disclosed, Made Manifest from faith and toward faith. It is a process.
The Gospel Is The Power Of GOD For Salvation, Romans 1:16; with the mouth he confesses resulting in Salvation, Romans 10:10. Here, Scripture maintains that to 'confess' means to 'not refuse', to, 'not deny', to, 'acknowledge' in all our living. To believe in JESUS CHRIST means to obey HIM (John 3:36). GOD Gives HIS HOLY SPIRIT To those who obey HIM (Acts 5:32).
This one is a new Creation In CHRIST; dying to sin to live to Righteousness. Able to recognise sin for what sin is. Just as it is this one too who is Released from his sins By The Blood Of JESUS.
We will all make mistakes, and struggle, and stumble, and stray, it is inevitable; Sanctification is an often painful process and dying to self cannot be anything other than difficult, because, as Scripture Says, For the flesh sets its desire against The SPIRIT, and The SPIRIT Against the flesh; for these are in opposition to one another, so that you may not do the things that you please. But if you are Led By The SPIRIT, you are not under The Law. Galatians 5:17-18.
The battle belongs to The LORD, WHO also Has The Victory. GOD Gives repentance to the humble and contrite heart, such is HIS Manifold Grace.
And if it is with difficulty that the Righteous is Saved, what will become of the godless man and the sinner? 1 Peter 4:18.
And this is The Message we have heard From HIM ( not from man nor through the agency of man, but through a revelation of JESUS CHRIST) and announce to you, that GOD Is Light, and In HIM there is no darkness at all. If we say we have fellowship with HIM and walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice The Truth; but if we walk In The Light as HE HIMSELF Is In The Light, we have fellowship with one another, and The Blood Of JESUS HIS SON Cleanses us from all sin. If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and The Truth is not in us. If we confess our sins, HE Is Faithful And Righteous to Forgive us our sins and to Cleanse us from all unrighteousness. If we say that we have not sinned, we make HIM a liar, and HIS Word is not In us.
My little children, I am writing these things to you that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have An ADVOCATE With The FATHER, JESUS CHRIST The Righteous; and HE HIMSELF Is The Propitiation For our sins; and not For ours only, but also For the whole world... 1 John 1:5 -2:2.
John, you have stated on notes, 'I am denying that sin is part of our true identity.' Surely you are disagreeing with what is contained even just in these few verses from 1 John?
If we say we have fellowship with HIM and walk in the darkness, we lie and do not practice The Truth
If we say that we have no sin, we are deceiving ourselves, and The Truth is not in us.
My little children, I am writing these things to you that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have An ADVOCATE With The FATHER, JESUS CHRIST The Righteous; and HE HIMSELF Is The Propitiation For our sins; and not For ours only, but also For the whole world
I understand that by this statement you mean that sin is not to be a part of who or what we are In CHRIST JESUS? But even spoken with this understanding in mind, it is a wrong statement to make, because it is not true of us. If we take our eyes off JESUS, we will get it wrong (Colossians 3:1-17).
Therefore let him who thinks he stands take heed lest he fall. (1 Corinthians 9:24 - 10:14).
Yet also on notes you state, 'Sin is not an essential part of who we are but it can be cut away through the circumcision of the heart. Please see Romans 7.'
Well yes, we can die to sin, and for this we have been Called; the Circumcision Made without hands, from faith working through Love. But we are in need of The Blood Of JESUS all the days of our sojourning in this world. Or would any dare to lay claim to there being a point in a Christian life where they will never have need of HIS Blood? Faith in JESUS CHRIST means acknowledgement you are dependant upon HIM completely, all the days of your life.
See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to CHRIST. For In HIM All The Fulness of Deity Dwells in bodily form, and In HIM you have been Made Complete, and HE Is The Head Over all Rule And Authority; and In HIM you were also Circumcised with A Circumcision Made without hands, in the removal of the body of the flesh By The Circumcision of CHRIST; having been buried with HIM in Baptism (Romans 6), in which you were also Raised Up With HIM through faith in The Working Of GOD, WHO Raised HIM from the dead... Colossians 2:8-12.
In Romans 7, the Apostle Paul states, For we know that The Law Is Spiritual; but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. For that which I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I like to, but I am doing the very thing I hate. But if I do the very thing I do not wish (Galatians 5:17), I agree with The Law, that It Is Good. So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which indwells me. For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the wishing is present in me, but the doing of the Good not. For the Good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish. But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me. I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wishes to do good... Romans 7:14-20.
The Apostle Paul here clearly recognises that The Law Is Spiritual, and that he is a slave to sin, that sin indwells him, that nothing good dwells in him, that is, in his flesh, doing the very evil that he does not wish to do, accepting that the wrong he does is because evil is present in him. But you believe sin does not pertain to nor constitute the essence of what we are before A Holy GOD? Yet Paul here is grieving at his wretchedness before A Holy GOD, and praising HIM; Wretched man that I am! Who will set me Free from the body of this death? Thanks be to GOD Through JESUS CHRIST our LORD!... Romans 7:24-25a.And to acknowledge JESUS CHRIST as LORD is to acknowledge HIM as MASTER, to obey HIM.
For from of old they have not heard nor perceived by ear, Neither has the eye seen A GOD besides THEE, WHO Acts In Behalf of the one who waits for HIM. THOU Dost Meet him who rejoices in doing righteousness, Who remembers THEE in THY Ways. Behold, THOU wast Angry, for we sinned, in them a long time; and shall we be Saved? For all of us have become like one who is unclean, And all our righteous deeds are like a filthy garment; and all of us wither like a leaf, And our iniquities, like the wind, take us away... Isaiah 64:4-6.
Therefore, just as through one man sin entered into the world, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men, because all sinned (no man can escape the fact, you are a sinner, that is what you are; 1 Corinthians 15:48-50).
Faith is The Gift By Grace, The Ministry of reconciliation, namely, that GOD was In CHRIST Reconciling the world to HIMSELF.(2 Corinthians 3 - 7:1). For if by the transgression of the one (Adam) the many died (you cannot escape the fact you are a sinner, to maintain you are not is to make GOD a liar; 1 John 1:8-10), much more did the Grace Of GOD And The Gift By The Grace Of The One Man, JESUS CHRIST, abound to the many... Romans 5:12 - 6:23.
Therefore, having these Promises, Beloved, let us Cleanse ourselves from all defilement of flesh and spirit, perfecting Holiness in the fear of GOD. 2 Corinthians 7:1.
"Now the Salvation, and The Power, and The Kingdom Of our GOD And The Authority Of HIS CHRIST Have Come, for the accuser of our Brethren has been Thrown Down, who accuses them before our GOD day and night. "And they overcame him because of The Blood Of The LAMB and because of the word of their testimony, and they did not love their life even to death. "For this reason, rejoice, O Heavens and you who dwell in them. Woe to the earth and the sea, because the devil has come down to you, having great wrath, knowing that he has a short time." Revelation 12:10-12.
To overcome means to prevail, to gain The Victory. Faith is required. Romans 3:4, Romans 12:9-21, Revelation, 2:7, 2:11, 2:17, 2:26, 3:5, 3:12, 3:21, 21:7.
"These will wage war against The LAMB, and The LAMB Will Overcome them, because HE Is LORD Of Lords And KING Of Kings, and those who are with HIM Called And Chosen And faithful. Revelation 17:14.
"Many are Called, few Chosen." Matthew 22:14.
...For this perishable must put on the Imperishable, and this mortal must put on Immortality, then will come about the saying that Is Written, "Death is swallowed up in Victory. "O death, where is your victory? O death, where is your sting?" The sting of death is sin, and the Power of sin is The Law (Romans 7:4-14); but thanks be to GOD WHO Gives us The Victory Through our LORD JESUS CHRIST. Therefore, my Beloved Brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in The Work Of The LORD, knowing that your toil is not vain In The LORD. 1 Corinthians 15:53-58.
"I AM The Resurrection And The Life; he who believes in ME shall live even if he dies (Revelation 2:11, & v26-29), and everyone who lives and believes in ME shall never die. Do you believe this?" John 11:25-26.
This means believing, having a faith that is to the Preserving of the soul; in accordance with Scripture, a constant all the days of our lives.
Blessed be The GOD And FATHER Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, WHO Has Blessed us with every Spiritual Blessing In The Heavenly In CHRIST, just as HE Chose us In HIM before The Foundation of the world, that we should be Holy and blameless before HIM In Love (Agape). HE Predestined us to Adoption as sons Through JESUS CHRIST To HIMSELF, according to The Kind Intention of HIS Will, to the praise of The Glory of HIS Grace, Which HE Freely Bestowed On us In The BELOVED. In HIM we have Redemption Through HIS Blood, the Forgiveness of our trespasses, according to The Riches of HIS Grace, Which HE Lavished Upon us... Ephesians 1:3-8a.
In CHRIST we have Redemption; The Releasing (i.e., on Payment of) a Ransom Through HIS Blood, the Forgiveness of our trespasses, according to The Riches of HIS Grace. Faith is required and required to be maintained, in accordance with Scripture.
GOD'S Grace Is Sufficient for the one who lives by faith in The SON Of GOD (2 Corinthians 12:7-10).
We must live to die to sin. We have obtained our Introduction by faith into this Grace in which we stand (Romans 5:1-5), and we must remain walking; faith in The Glorious Gospel Of The Blessed GOD, so that Grace is not made void (1 Corinthians 15:1-2, 2 Corinthians 6:1-10).
No, sin and the struggles with the flesh are not suddenly taken away from us ( 2 Corinthians 4:16, James 1:2-4, 1 Peter 1:2), though the consequence of sin; judgment, is removed By Grace through faith in JESUS CHRIST.
However, Grace Culminates; (1 Peter 1:13-16, Revelation 22:10-21) and we are certainly under obligation to put to death the deeds of the flesh (Romans 8:12-17). And we are Instructed how we must now prepare and maintain, and why, (Ephesians 6:10-18), so that we may indeed endure, and overcome In HIM. And we are warned, many times in Scripture, of conduct of a child Of GOD and consequence of disobedience, of false teachers, of falling away from The faith.
..."And many false prophets will arise, and will mislead many. "And because lawlessness is increased, most people's Love (Agape) will grow cold. "But the one who endures to the end, he shall be Saved. "And this Gospel Of The Kingdom shall be preached in the whole world for a witness to all the nations, and then The End Shall Come. Matthew 24:11-14.
The use and interpretation of Ephesians 1:4, isolated from the preceeding and proceding verses and contradicting other Scriptures, is not the way to interpret any Scripture. Because if you, or me, or anyone is a professing Christian, it does not go to say that GOD Chose us In CHRIST, above all the unbelievers, even since before The Foundation of the world. To believe and teach this is heresy. How many is this teaching deceiving?
The Living GOD Is The SAVIOUR Of all men, especially of believers. 1 Timothy 4.
JESUS CHRIST The Righteous Is HIMSELF The Propitiation for not only our sins, but also for the whole world. 1 John 2:1-2.
Ephesians 1:3-4, Blessed be The GOD And FATHER Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, WHO Has Blessed us In CHRIST with all the Spiritual Blessings In Heaven, according to as The MOST HIGH HIMSELF has Chosen us (who are believers In HIM; Called and Chosen and faithful) even before the conception of the world, that we should be Holy and without blame before HIM In Love.
Because GOD Sees the end from the beginning it does not mean that because we ourselves lay claim to being a Christian, whoever we may be, that we were specifically chosen more than any other, purely for the reason we may have once believed. We cannot justify ourselves. Only GOD Is Just And The Justifier Of the one who has faith In JESUS (Romans 3:21-28, 2 Corinthians 13:5).
If we receive the witness of men, The Witness Of GOD Is Greater; for The Witness Of GOD Is This, that HE Has Borne Witness Concerning HIS SON. The one who believes in The SON Of GOD has The Witness In himself; the one who does not believe GOD has made HIM a liar, because he has not believed in The Witness that GOD Has Borne Concerning HIS SON. And The Witness is This, that GOD Has Given us Eternal Life, and this Life is In HIS SON. He who has The SON has The Life; he who does not have The SON Of GOD does not have The Life. These things I have written to you who believe in The Name Of The SON Of GOD, in order that you may know that you have Eternal Life. 1 John 5:9-13.
To Romans 8:28-30, And we know that all things work together for good to those who love GOD, to those who are Called according to purpose. For whom HE Foreknew, HE Also Predestined Conformed to The Image Of HIS SON (1 Corinthians 11:1, 1 John 2:3-6), that HE might be The First-Born among many Brethren; and whom HE Predestined, these HE Also Called; and whom HE Called, these HE Also Justified; and whom HE Justified, these HE Also Glorified.
It staggers me how many will choose to interpret and apply this Scripture. But to understand it as GOD intended through HIS Apostles, we would do well, rather than to consider any precept and doctrine of man, to instead consider such as John 14:6, "I AM The Way, And The Truth, And The Life; no one comes to The FATHER, but Through ME."
And,
Test yourselves if you are In The faith; examine yourselves! Or do you not recognise this about yourselves, that JESUS CHRIST Is In you - unless indeed you fail the test? 2 Corinthians 13:5.
And also, of course, as with gaining all understanding it is to be in the context of the preceeding and proceding verses of wherever we are reading from, and also with all other Scripture; not one single contradiction.
Yes we are to be transformed by the Renewing of our mind, that we may prove what The Will Of GOD Is, that which is Good and Acceptable and Perfect (Romans 12:2). And again, clearly it means a process. Good and Acceptable and Perfect; according to Godly morals, as opposed to the moral standards of the world (1 John 2:15-17).
Ezekiel 36:26, yes, but we do not presume that this, or any other Scripture, automatically applies to us and is of us because we ourselves profess to be a follower of CHRIST; a Christian. There will be evidence of GOD Fulfilling HIS Word in the believer. A sound guide to what that evidence will be Romans 12:9-21, this is explaining and defining Agape without hypocrisy. Of course, ultimately our Example is JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF.
Hi Paul. Thank you for your labor of love. To take the time to write such a thoughtful response shows a high value for a human being whom you hardly know. It is good to be connected with someone who loves the Lord and His Word and shows that in how he treats people. You must be a light in Scotland.
I will chew (meditate) on what you have said and the verses you quoted. I am familiar with the doctrine of the perseverance of the saints and I am also familiar with the "once saved, always saved" doctrine. There are highly respected men of God who have different opinions on these important topics. It is doubtful that we will resolve these differences here but we can increase our understanding of God and His Word.
I'm sure we can agree that there is a place for reasoning as Scripture declares. ("Come let us reason together, saith the Lord. ..." (Isaiah 1:18)) Paul uses logic and revelation in the remarkable book of Romans, admired by its thoroughness in expounding the Gospel of grace and of our Lord, Jesus Christ. Yet I believe we would also agree that although logic and the human mind are tools to help us arrive at truth, they are subservient to their Creator and work properly when submitted to Him.
Thank you again for addressing some issues using your experience, your knowledge of Scripture, and your intellectual abilities.
May the Lord bless you and use you mightily in the days ahead.
Be blessed!
John
Hi, Otavio.
"Love is kind. ... Love never fails." (1 Corinthians 13) Thank you for your kindness in your response. It will accompllish what God intends.
May the Lord bless you as you continue to shine His light on Chess.com.
John
It is a joy and blesses my heart to see and witness love and humility shared among The Brethren. By this Jesus Says it will be known you're My Disciples. Praise His Lovely Name.
Hi again John,
Firstly, the nearest I've got to Scotland is a bottle of single malt, and that would be at least almost nine years ago :) I'm more of a south london boy, and I write as I do because if I did not I would have no peace in the many things I hear.
Just so you know, I know nothing of these doctrines, whatever they may be called. I only want to know Sound Doctrine. 1 Timothy 6:3-7.
I thank GOD for HIS Grace to me, and the desire in my heart I have to only read my Bible. I use my nasb, W.E.Vine's expository dictionary, and an English dictionary. All I know is what I read, what I hear, and I always seek to align all that is claimed with The Infallible Word Of GOD. My faith is in The LORD my GOD, and not man.
I am not a well educated man. I took every opportunity I could not to go to school, and left school aged 15. I testify to the Truth of and bear witness to 1 Corinthians 1:18-31. And truly, any boast I have I boast in The LORD.
I will not be swayed nor impressed by reputations of men. What they are or may claim to be carries no weight with me. I will look for The Witness GOD Has Borne Concerning HIS SON. GOD Is True and man is a liar; Romans 3:4, Psalm 146.
The one thing that will get in the way of the understanding Given Of GOD, WHO Is not a GOD of confusion but Of Peace, as in all the Churches of the Saints, is pride, arrogance.
Humility, as Of CHRIST, holds none of these fleshly qualities, which defile the man. It is sin. GOD Is Opposed to the proud, but Gives Grace To the humble. And all are Saved only By Grace through faith in The SON Of GOD.
To confess that JESUS CHRIST Has Come in the Flesh as Scripture maintains, such as 1 John 4:1-6, means to agree with JESUS CHRIST in all things; word and deed. John 12:44-50. HE Is our Perfect Example in all things. So how then can professing Christians differ on understanding of Scripture, and be right before GOD and man? It is impossible.
Humility says, from the heart, "THY Will be done." Matthew 6:9-15.
And again, our LORD JESUS CHRIST Says, "A disciple is not above his teacher, nor a slave above his master. "It is enough for the disciple that he becomes as his teacher, and the slave as his master... Matthew 10:24-25a.
And in another place, "A blind man cannot guide a blind man, can he?Will they not both fall into a pit? "A pupil is not above his teacher, but everyone, after he has been fully trained, will be like his teacher. Luke 6:39-40.
So why would any follow any mere man? Why and how can any professing Christian settle for differences in opinion of understanding? Who do we actually look to to be our teacher. I choose The LORD JESUS CHRIST. My faith is in The LORD my GOD and in HIS Word I trust. 1 John 2:25-29.
John, there can be no room whatsoever for reasoning when it comes to understanding Scripture. 2 Peter 1:20 - 2:2.
Isaiah 1:18 is certainly not GOD Saying that we may reason together with HIM on understanding HIS Infallible Word. GOD cannot break the Scriptures. And to be completely submitted to GOD is not what one is doing if they will interpret Scripture how they will interpret Scripture.
Now I exhort you, Brethren, By The Name Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, that you all agree, and there be no divisions among you, but you be Made Complete in the same mind and in the same judgment. 1 Corinthians 1:10.
The Grace Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST Be With you all.
Hi Paul.
Thanks for sharing more of your personal background and perspective as well as the tools you use to study your Bible.
Have you heard of Smith Wigglesworth? He was a remarkable man of God and was born in Yorkshire, England, in 1859. God used him in many remarkable ways, even to raise the dead on occasion. He often stated that the Holy Bible was the only book he ever read, and did not permit newspapers in his home, preferring the Bible to be their only reading material.
I have to admit I have never run across a man like you who seems so quick to rebuke. You seem to have a keen sensitivity. I take it as a challenge for me to return to a deeper study of Scripture.
Part of my background was in Christian Science and I was also deceived for awhile by a false cult called The Way International. I also hate false doctrine and have a love for the truth and a love for Scripture. I do not consider myself a heretic but rather one who learns from the Lord and recognizes that He speaks to others too. “For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.” ("1 Corinthians 13:12.)
I often quote this verse to encourage all to put Scripture ahead of the opinions of man, "Now the Berean Jews were of more noble character than those in Thessalonica, for they received the message with great eagerness and examined the Scriptures every day to see if what Paul said was true." (Acts 17:11, NIV.)
I see heresy as departing from one or more of the fundamental truths of Scripture or core doctrines that are necessary for salvation. I see differences of opinion and perspective as a reason why we have many Christian denominations. Christ holds all things together and we are to build each other up. Maturity looks like holy love, a picture of Jesus.
John
"Man’s steps Are Ordained By The Lord, How then can man understand his way? It is a snare for a man to say rashly, “It is holy!” And after the vows to make inquiry." Proverbs 20:24-25
Perfect Scripture Steph. Praise The LORD!
Dear John, I read your latest post here yesterday and felt no urgency to reply. I knew it would be answered. I waited on The LORD.
And, I know that these verses Steph has posted came to her this morning.
You say that you have not run across a man like me who is so quick to rebuke. But if you feel my words are a rebuke then know that first of all it is The Infallible Word Of GOD that Speaks, not a man. I am a nobody. And if I make a claim on Scripture and someone sees any error I am in, I fully expect them to correct me, yet not they, but The GOD WHO Gives HIS HOLY SPIRIT To you. For I too am under obligation to believe in The Living GOD, WHO Is The SAVIOUR Of all men, especially of believers; Of all who will call upon HIS Name in Truth; faith. And to adhere, just as you and every other living soul is, and shall be accountable to GOD for not doing so. There is no partiality with GOD; Romans 2:11-13, Romans 3:31, so as imitators of GOD as Beloved children (Ephesians 5:1-21) neither should there be with us.
Brethren, even if a man is caught in any trespass, you who are Spiritual, restore such a one in a spirit of gentleness; looking to yourself, lest you too be tempted. Bear one another's burdens, and thus fulfill The Law Of CHRIST. For if anyone thinks he is something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each one examine his own work, and then he will have boasting in regard to himself alone, and not in regard to another. For each one shall bear his own load... Galatians 6:1-5.
You have not resisted unto Blood striving against sin; and you have forgotten the Exhortation Which Is Addressed To you as sons, "MY son, do not regard lightly the Discipline Of The LORD, Nor faint when you are Reproved By HIM; For those whom The LORD loves HE Disciplines, And HE Scourges every son whom HE Receives."
It is for Discipline that you endure; GOD Deals With you as with sons; for what son is there whom FATHER does not Discipline? But if you are without Discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons (Of GOD). Further more, we had earthly fathers to discipline us, and we respected them; shall we not much rather be subject to The FATHER Of spirits, and Live? For they disciplined us for a short time as seemed best to them, but HE Disciplines us for Good, that we may share HIS Holiness.
All Discipline for (in) the moment seems not to be joyful, but sorrowful; yet To those who have been Trained By It, afterwards it Yields the Peaceful Fruit of Righteousness.
Therefore, strengthen the hands that are weak and the kness that are feeble, and make straight paths for your feet, so that which is lame (halted in his walking The Narrow Path) may not be put out of joint (John 17), but rather be Healed.
Pursue Peace with all men, and the Sanctification without which no one will see The LORD. See to it that no one comes short of the Grace Of GOD; that no root of bitterness springing up causes trouble, and by it many be defiled;... Hebrews 12:4-15.
"It Is Written, 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every Word that Proceeds Out of The Mouth Of GOD.'" Matthew 4:4.
"And this is Eternal Life, that they may know THEE, The Only True GOD, And JESUS CHRIST WHOM HE Has Sent. "I Glorified THEE on the earth, having accomplished The Work THOU Hast Given ME To Do. John 17:3-4.
Herein John 17:3-4 is why I posted, in my second post here, the Scripture references, John 12:44-50, and, Matthew 10:24-25a, and Luke 6:39-40. To know The Only True GOD means to truly perceive, to know absolutely, to understand The Only True GOD. And to know JESUS CHRIST means to be Conformed to HIS Image (Romans 8:28-30, 1 John 2:3-6). Our LORD JESUS CHRIST never Spoke on HIS Own Initiative, but as The FATHER Gave HIM to Say and to Speak. We are clearly under obligation to the same. This is of faith In The LORD JESUS CHRIST.
Psalm 36.
If we hate false doctrine and delight ourselves In The LORD, then we shall indeed hear The Words Of GOD (Psalm 37:1-11, John 8:42-51).
You say, 'I see heresy as departing from one or more of the fundamental truths of Scripture or core doctrines that are necessary for salvation.'
Heresy, according to GOD, denotes a choosing, choice. It is whatever is contrary to GOD. All Scripture, every word, every stroke, is The GOD Breathed Word.
All Scripture Is Inspired By GOD and Profitable for teaching, for reproof, for correction, for training in Righteousness; that the man Of GOD may be Adequate, Equipped for every Good Work. 2 Timothy 3:16-17 (2 Corinthians 3).
All Scripture is fundamental to be living by faith In The Living GOD, for, "It Is Written, 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every Word that Proceeds Out of The Mouth Of GOD.'"
And again, "Do not think that I Came to abolish The Law or the Prophets; I did not Come to abolish, but to Fulfill (Complete). "For Truly I Say To you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass away from The Law, until all is Accomplished... (Matthew 24:14, 2 Peter 3:10-18). Matthew 5:17-18.
When we hear Truth, it is not to attempt to reason with Truth, not to ignore Truth, but in humility to accept in that we hear and obey, not man, but ALMIGHTY GOD.
And working together we also urge you not to receive the Grace Of GOD in vain - for HE Says, "At The Acceptable Time I Listened to you, And On The Day Of Salvation I Helped you"; behold, now is "The Acceptable Time," behold, now is "The Day Of Salvation" - giving no cause for offence in anything, in order that The Ministry be not discredited, but in everything commending ourselves as servants Of GOD, in much endurance... 2 Corinthians 6:1-4a
We cannot be found as false witnesses of GOD, in preaching anything not Preached Through JESUS CHRIST, and HIS Perfect Example in all things; the teaching of HIS Apostles (Acts 2:42).
Yes, I have heard of Smith Wigglesworth, though relatively very little to all The LORD Accomplished through him in his time in this world. A man Of GOD indeed.
Are we not by humility to examine everything presented to us as being of GOD, to see whether it is indeed Of The faith, or not? Because JESUS CHRIST does not change. GOD HIMSELF does not change!
Remember those who led you, who spoke The Word Of GOD to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith. JESUS CHRIST The Same yesterday and today, and Forever. Do not be carried away by varied and strange teachings; for it is good for the heart to be Strengthened By Grace, not by foods, through which those who were thus occupied were not Benefitted. Hebrews 13:7-9.
"It Is Written, 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every Word that Proceeds Out of The Mouth Of GOD.'" Matthew 4:4.
...But now abide Faith, Hope, Love, These Three; But The Greatest of These Is Love. 1 Corinthians 13:13.
In CHRIST,
Paul.
Hi, Steph and Paul.
I fail to understand the relevance of Psalm 20:24-25 to this discussion. I made no vow and did not devote something rashly as holy. I think you are using this verse out of context.
Here are the verses quoted from NKJV,
" A man’s steps are of the Lord;
How then can a man understand his own way?
25 It is a snare for a man to devote rashly something as holy, And afterward to reconsider his vows."
Hi Paul.
As you may recall this discussion was a result of my responding to a comment by a member of this group in an attempt to comfort, encourage, and help her. I think you would have been wiser and more loving to acknowledge that my motive was good even if you didn’t agree with or fully understand my method and thought I might be teaching heresy. Asking questions for clarification is better than making a judgment based on the limited information that you may know. But having the courage to bring things out into the open is better than letting them slide into oblivion which results in building walls instead of bridges. When truth is sincerely pursued and love is demonstrated in its pursuit, I believe this honors God.
What I tried to convey through the terminology “true identity” was that God sees us differently from how we see ourselves. When we believe correctly, in line with God's truth, our actions will follow and also reflect the truth. Right conduct comes out of a mind transformed by the truth of God's Word. What I meant by "true identity" was our identity as God sees us. I limited this to the context of Christians who were chosen before the foundation of the world. God stands outside of time and time is His servant which helps us order our lives. He already sees us as justified and glorified. ("29For those God foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, so that He would be the firstborn among many brothers. 30And those He predestined He also called, those He called He also justified, those He justified He also glorified. " (Romans 8:29-30.)
I do appreciate the Scripture and treasure it and, like you, I also do not take the opinion of a person who quotes Scripture as the opinion of God on the Scripture that has been quoted. I also give deference to those I know who demonstrate by their lives that they walk with God through their relationships and by their doctrine. I try to remain open to improving my understanding of Scripture and I try to understand the other person's viewpoint. I try to avoid judging them and being critical of them but prefer to ask questions and dialogue with them if it is possible and feasible. I know I fall far short of loving others as God would have me loving them so my current understanding of God’s Word has plenty of room for improvement. God reveals Himself further to those who obey Him based on what He has already revealed.
I believe it is fruitful to continue discussions with sincere Christians who love God and His Word. By choosing 1 Corinthians 13 love to guide our actions we will grow in love and knowledge of the truth as well as getting to know each other better and appreciating each other more.
Theologically speaking what I meant to say was that God is the definer of truth and reality. He defines our “true identity.” What He says trumps what we think or feel or how we interpret facts or the opinions of men or their "science." A true understanding of science and history confirms God’s Word. Anyone who presumes to judge God and what He says is insufferably proud and arrogant and is most likely still “dead in their trespasses and sins.” (Ephesians 2;1.)
If God says that I am a new creation that is what I am. No matter how I feel about myself or how how I behave. I may not be consistently living like a new creation in Christ because I have not been fully transformed by the renewing of my mind. I also acknowledge that the more Scripture we know and incorporate into our lives the more we will be conformed to the image of Christ.
I believe the limitations of applying Scriptures are those imposed by other Scriptures. Just like the ocean has a limit in its domain, certain Scriptures have limits imposed by God. Since the Holy Spirit is the author of the Scriptures He can help us understand them. ("26 I have written these things to you about those who are trying to deceive you. 27And as for you, the anointing you received from Him remains in you, and you do not need anyone to teach you. But just as His true and genuine anointing teaches you about all things, so remain in Him as you have been taught. 28And now, little children, remain in Him, so that when He appears, we may be confident and unashamed before Him at His coming." (1 John 2:27, Berean Study Bible.))
I also believe we are called "believers" in the Bible for a good reason. Believing God and what He says even when we don't understand it is essential for our growth to maturity. You will remember that Mary, the mother of Jesus, was commended but Zachariah, the father of John the Baptist, was not because Mary believed God's message and asked for understanding but Zechariah did not believe the message because his mind didn't understand it. ("Without faith it is impossible to please God. ..." (Hebrews 11:6a.))
Paul, it does take a good amount of time to marshal the Scriptures to present a solid Scriptural basis for what I am saying. I appreciate the Scriptures you used. They are a source of life and strength and I enjoy reading them.
I believe God sees us as complete in Christ. He completes what He starts. "For those God foreknew he also predestined to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brothers and sisters." (Romans 8:29, NIV.) True believers will persevere to the end but their works do not save them. Their perseverance demonstrates their faith just like the works that James talks about in his letter demonstrates the faith of those who practice them. "Faith without works is dead." (See James 2: 14-26.)
I encourage you to keep pursuing truth and remember, "The spirits of prophets are subject to the control of prophets." (1 Corinthians 14:32.) When you feel a need to say something then say something. But it should always be tempered by love and I believe it is best to avoid pre-judging. I do commend you for your earlier responses when you asked me if I had a Web site because I believe you wanted to get a better understanding of where I was coming from. That was a wise course of action. You show a great deal of patience in your responses and I appreciate the time you spend to compose them.
Be blessed, brother! God made you the way He did. He knows we need exhorters in the Body of Christ.
John
Ok John,
I will look to expand on Proverbs 20:24-25 from the kjv translation of the orginal text, and in relation to all the words that have been shared here, and to answer points in your latest post, which seem to be rather more your own personal view points of what is happening. I would ask for patience as I have other things which take my time at the moment in that I have not the time I would normally have. But to answer you is fully in my heart to do, whether you will hear, or not. I have been given the time thus far to answer you, and I have no doubt that I will again if I am to do so. And all in Due Time.
And the reasons for writing as I am writing , not only to you, but also to whoever else will read here, is because all that is being put forth here is being done so as being true Of GOD. It is not to be in the expectation of division, contentions, strife, nor mere philosophy.
Your words thus far strike more of psychology and not preaching The Gospel in accordance with the Apostles Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST.
Psychology: the science of the mind or of mental states and processes. The science of human behaviour. The sum or characteristics of the mental states and processes of a person or class of persons, or of the mental states and processes involved in a field or activity. Mental ploys and strategy.
You are yet to speak from Scripture of Scripture to make known what you wish to make known, and I would much rather this is what you did, being in accordance with Scripture, however long it takes you. I have the patience to wait John, and you have a duty before GOD to do so.
Whoever speaks, as it were the Utterances Of GOD; whoever serves, as by the Strength Which GOD Supplies; so that in all things GOD may be Glorified Through JESUS CHRIST, to WHOM Belongs The Glory And Dominion Forever And Ever. Amen. 1 Peter 4:11.
John, if you want me to be able to hear you, you need to begin to speak from Scripture and explaining what you claim from The GOD Breathed Word soley through the Holy Scriptures, that I may either repent or answer you fully. What other reason would there be to be having such discussions as these if we are indeed looking to live by The faith?
Only conduct yourselves in a manner worthy of The Gospel Of CHRIST; so that whether I come and see you or remain absent, I may hear of you that you are one spirit, with one mind striving together for The faith Of The Gospel; in no way alarmed by opponents which is a sign of Destruction for them, but Of Salvation for you, and that From GOD. For To you it has been Granted for CHRIST'S Sake, not only to believe In HIM, but also to suffer for HIS Sake, experiencing the same conflict which you saw in me, and now hear in me.
If therefore there is any encouragement In CHRIST, if there is any consolation of Love, if there is any fellowship of The SPIRIT, if any affection and compassion, make my joy complete by being of the same mind, maintaining the same Love, united in spirit, intent on one Purpose. Do nothing from selfishness or empty conceit, but with humility of mind let each one of you regard one another as more important than himself; do not look out for your own personal interests, but also for the interests of others. Have this attitude in yourselves which was also in CHRIST JESUS,... Philippians 1:27 - 2:5.
Also, calvinism, or any element in terms of it, have no place here in the group Philemon :6. It is heresy, being at variance with Sound Doctrine. If any wish to follow John Calvin, then they have free will to do so, though not here. Joshua 24:14-15. I will seek to follow The LORD JESUS CHRIST that I may indeed worship The FATHER In spirit and Truth, John 4:23-24.
The fact that calvinism is rejected here is made abundantly clear in forum posts. It then seems an attempt to cause division rather than upbuilding in The faith to join such a group to begin preaching with calvinistic undertones and statements, however subtle they may appear to be.
Let us remember, WHOSE Is The Authority, and to HIM we shall give account for every careless word or deed. Luke 17:1-10.
In CHRIST,
Paul.
Dear Paul this has so Blessed my heart to read. May The Lord Bless us all as we seek His Truth together in love and humility. Although I'll be away, my prayers remain here. Stephanie
Hi Paul.
Although we may not always agree, I do want you to know that I appreciate you, brother, and the work that you have been doing here.
I will be reviewing your previous responses today, Lord willing, not to find fault with them but to learn what I can from what you have posted. I want to hear what God has to say more than I want to be right.
As for some more of my background, I have been a Christian for almost 45 years and have fellowshipped and been an active member of churches of various denominations. I do not change my theology when I change churches but I seek the Lord's guidance. I believe He has been honored as Lord in each of the churches I have joined in the past. I have learned from Him through each of these churches. I also acknowledge that churches like people still have their faults as pointed out in Revelation, chapters 2 and 3.
For your information, I joined Chess.com primarily to point people to Christ while still abiding by the rules of the organization, thus my name and avatar. I was led to this group indirectly through Otavio because I felt he had a heart for evangelism and I could learn from him. I was not aware of your protocol here when I joined the group. I value Scripture above the opinions of man and greatly appreciate what is expressed in Psalm 119.
On the other hand, I also greatly respect certain men of God who have used Scripture and other sources to accomplish their God-given tasks. American evangelist Billy Graham is one example that readily comes to mind. He was an ambassador for Christ. Like Billy Graham, I believe an ambassador for Christ should be aware of the customs and language of the land where he is stationed and should be able to effectively communicate with the inhabitants of that land. He serves His King and needs to know how to best communicate the messages of His King. Scripture attests of this through the Apostle Paul.
Consider 1 Corinthians 9:21-23: "21To those without the Law I became like one without the Law (though I am not outside the law of God but am under the law of Christ), to win those without the Law. 22To the weak I became weak, to win the weak. I have become all things to all men so that by all possible means I might save some of them. 23I do all this for the sake of the gospel, so that I may share in its blessings." (Berean Study Bible.)
I do not see the wisdom in setting aside the work of men of God like John Calvin and others that showed a sincere love of God and a good knowledge of Scripture although I recognize it may not be best to post it insensitively. As Scripture says God has appointed teachers in the body of Christ. I also acknowledge that teachers are given a higher standard of accountability and are not always right. It was never my intent to try to promote Calvinism here and I did not consider this group’s opinion of Calvinism. I was merely trying to illustrate that sincere and knowledgeable men (or women) of God can have differing opinions on certain Scripture passages. I believe in humility we should acknowledges that there is value in the opinions on sincere Christians who love Scripture and who have the gift of teaching Scripture even if their views of some Scriptures differ from our own.
I agree that when the church departs from the Scripture heresy can and too often does happen. For instance, the Roman Catholic Church devolved from the original apostolic church over the centuries and taught that people had to add their good works to the blood of Christ in order to be saved. It took Martin Luther, a Roman Catholic Monk, to reestablish the Bible truth of justification by faith alone and through Christ alone. He paid dearly for it. But I believe he missed God on several key points such as being anti-Semitic and not recognizing that God wasn't through with the nation of Israel. Luther also wanted to reject the epistle of James because he thought it taught salvation by faith and works. He didn't realize that saving faith is never alone and always shows itself with works that reflect the faith and show its completeness. I also understand that you may feel a responsibility to make sure that heresy does not go unchallenged if it is posted in this group.
I have no interest in sowing division in this group or in the body of Christ. I can also confine myself to just sharing Scripture on this Web site if that is what pleases the Lord and is the wish of this group. I will learn what I can from your posts while trying to keep my heart open. I am somewhat grieved about the apparent conflict we seem to have here and will also be seeking the Lord about whether He wants me to continue posting here.
Paul, I hope you carefully consider the Scripture I have posted to support my views and not just focus on things I say that are not direct quotes from Scripture. It seems as if you are separating yourself from the humanity that we must all contend with. I don't mind being shown when I am wrong and usually appreciate it if it is done in the right way. I also know that is the job of the Holy Spirit to convict of sin. I also believe God may have sent me here to post along with the others to help all of us grow to a greater level of maturity. I hope that both you and I can still acknowledge our mistakes and learn from them. If we are wise we know how to give and receive rebukes if necessary.
"31He whose ear listens to the life-giving reproof will dwell among the wise. 32He who neglects discipline despises himself, But he who listens to reproof acquires understanding. 33The fear of the LORD is the instruction for wisdom, And before honor comes humility." (Proverbs 15:31-33; NASB.)
“A wise man will hear and increase in learning, And a man of understanding will acquire wise counsel,” (Proverbs 1:5, NASB)
Please do not feel you have to respond to my posts on my account. Short responses sometimes are adequate. I know we all have other things to do.
John
P.S. By the way, I re-quoted from the New King James Bible the verse that Steph had previously quoted.
To desire to hear GOD more than to be right is a good place to be and the only place to begin from, and to stay. If what we preach and maintain is not Of GOD then most certainly it can only cause division, even if we will maintain we do not want to cause division.
John, we as professing followers of JESUS CHRIST, must always seek to agree on Scripture. Always. GOD Commands it and the Scriptures I have posted, in the hope of getting this point across, reiterate this very fact.
To not seek to be of the same mind and of the same judgment is to be living contrary to Scripture. We are to speak the same as JESUS CHRIST, Scripture states it is so, so we cannot therefore maintain any differences to such a statement other than GOD'S children to be of the same mind and of the same judgment.
To not seek as Scripture maintains we are to seek, is not one derelict in duty before GOD in The Church, HIS Body? If one is shown error and refuses correction, does this then make him free from guilt in it? If HE, The LORD JESUS CHRIST Is The Head, and HE Is, how then can HIS Body be doing its own thing? It cannot! This is what is wrong with what professes to be the Church today. Many denominations, doctrines, etc, and we will insist on accomodating them rather than examining to see if what they maintain is indeed Of The faith.
I think the main problem people have with this is that they are unable to maintain Scripture from Scripture, and so before GOD, in ignorance to Truth they accept the unacceptable and defend the indefensible all the while maintaining they do service to GOD in defence of their actions.
I too, like you state of yourself, do not want disagreement, conflict. But assuredly there will be so if any seek to maintain what is not in agreement with GOD; with Sound Doctrine. How can there not be? Matthew 10:24-42.
I will not compromise Scripture to accomodate people in what they themselves want to choose is right. There is no Scripture I have read and understood that instructs any to do this. To do so is of no benefit to any, and can only be to their detriment. If we have a difference in understanding, then we must, together, search the Scriptures to find Truth. It is there to be found in humility, for all who wish to know Truth. Why would any fear doing this if what they maintain is to know Truth?
And Psalm 119, I do not read the Psalmist speaking to any other than The LORD GOD to Impart HIS Commandments, HIS Precepts, HIS Statutes, HIS Knowledge; HIS Will, to please HIM in all aspects.
I will not speak of Calvin as a man of GOD as you will, because his teaching is not in agreement with Sound Doctrine. The Apostle Paul, a man Of GOD indeed. John Calvin in his teaching actually opposes Paul, Peter, John, James, who speak as Of The LORD HIMSELF.
We all undoubtedly will make mistakes, yes. But first we must realise, GOD Holds no mistakes, and we may only know Truth because of HIM, By HIM, Through HIM, and to HIS Glory.
Take notice of Job. The first book of the Bible I sat and read after my Introduction By faith into the Grace in which I stand, and will continue to stand in, by faith in The SON Of GOD, in accordance with the teaching of the Apostles Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST.
What was the error of Job, and of his three friends? How, and why, does Elihu speak from chapter 32? How then in chapter 42 do we see how Job is then Justified before GOD?
"But it is a spirit in a man, And The Breath Of The ALMIGHTY Gives them Understanding. "The abundant in years may not be wise, Nor may elders understand Justice. "So I say, 'Listen to me, I too will tell what I think.'
Only GOD Is Just And The Justifier Of the one who lives by faith In JESUS.
1Receive one who is weak in the faith, but not to disputes over doubtful things. 2For one believes he may eat all things, but he who is weak eats only vegetables. 3Let not him who eats despise him who does not eat, and let not him who does not eat judge him who eats; for God has received him. 4Who are you to judge another’s servant? To his own master he stands or falls. Indeed, he will be made to stand, for God is able to make him stand.
5One person esteems one day above another; another esteems every day alike. Let each be fully convinced in his own mind. 6He who observes the day, observes it to the Lord; and he who does not observe the day, to the Lord he does not observe it. He who eats, eats to the Lord, for he gives God thanks; and he who does not eat, to the Lord he does not eat, and gives God thanks. 7For none of us lives to himself, and no one dies to himself. 8For if we live, we live to the Lord; and if we die, we die to the Lord. Therefore, whether we live or die, we are the Lord’s. 9For to this end Christ died £and rose and lived again, that He might be Lord of both the dead and the living. 10But why do you judge your brother? Or why do you show contempt for your brother? For we shall all stand before the judgment seat of £Christ. 11For it is written:
“As I live, says the Lord,
Every knee shall bow to Me,
And every tongue shall confess to God.ӣ
12So then each of us shall give account of himself to God. 13Therefore let us not judge one another anymore, but rather resolve this, not to put a stumbling block or a cause to fall in our brother’s way.
14I know and am convinced by the Lord Jesus that there is nothing unclean of itself; but to him who considers anything to be unclean, to him it is unclean. 15Yet if your brother is grieved because of your food, you are no longer walking in love. Do not destroy with your food the one for whom Christ died. 16Therefore do not let your good be spoken of as evil; 17for the kingdom of God is not eating and drinking, but righteousness and peace and joy in the Holy Spirit. 18For he who serves Christ in £these things is acceptable to God and approved by men.
19Therefore let us pursue the things which make for peace and the things by which one may edify another. 20Do not destroy the work of God for the sake of food. All things indeed are pure, but it is evil for the man who eats with offense. 21It is good neither to eat meat nor drink wine nor do anything by which your brother stumbles £or is offended or is made weak. 22£Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. 23But he who doubts is condemned if he eats, because he does not eat from faith; for whatever is not from faith is £sin.
Thank you John. After answering your last posting I had nothing more to say. What I had previously stated I had in me to post went from me. I am thankful for this as it gives opportunity to show something of the purity required of a Saint, in The True Knowedge Of GOD, according to Scriptutre, which HE Has For HIS children to know, which means to understand, in that it is theirs; hearts Cleansed, so that to them, all things are indeed Pure; according to CHRIST, as opposed to what is accepted and with the many variations of it according to the one who will make them, whoever he will be.
Your posting Romans 14 straight away brought to mind what I have heard before in how this will be used to maintain any differences in Scripture.
Romans 14:1, Now accept the one who is weak in faith, not for passing judgment on his opinions...
Surely, here Paul is instructing us to accept as our companion in The faith, even, to take to our heart one who is, as yet, weak in faith, though not doing this for purpose of disputing and deliberating over such matters as to what he will eat or not eat or days observed according to his conscience?
Little children, let us not love with word or with tongue (Isaiah 29:13-16), but in deed and truth. We shall know by this that we are Of The Truth, and shall assure our heart before HIM, in whatever our heart condemns us; for GOD Is Greater than our heart, and Knows All Things. Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before GOD; and whatever we ask we Receive From HIM (1 Corinthians 1:26-31), because we keep HIS Commandments and do the things that are pleasing in HIS Sight (2 Chronicles 16:9). And This Is HIS Commandment, that we believe in The Name Of HIS SON JESUS CHRIST, and love one another, just as HE Commanded us. And the one who keeps HIS Commandments abides In HIM, And HE In him. And we know by This that HE Abides In us, By The SPIRIT WHOM HE Has Given us. 1 John 3:18-24.
The food spoken of in Romans 14 is food for the stomach (Food is for the stomach, and the stomach is for food; but GOD Will Do Away with both of them. 1 Corinthians 6:13), and not in relation to Spiritual Food; The Word Of GOD ("It Is Written, 'Man shall not live on bread alone, but on every Word That Proceeds Out Of The Mouth Of GOD.'" Matthew 4:4. But The Word Of The LORD Abides Forever. And this is The Word Which was preached to you. 1 Peter 1:13 - 2:12). If it were in relation to Doctrine, then the Apostle Paul could not write as he does here in Romans 14, of accepting what they will choose, and not passing judgment on it, because to do so then he would clearly be contradicting the Infallible Word (1 Timothy 6:3-6), indeed, The Message Of The Gospel.
"I AM The Way, And The Truth, And The Life; no one comes to The FATHER, But Through ME." John 14:6.
But The Goal of our Instruction is Love from a pure ( Cleansed; John 15:1-2, Matthew 5:8) heart and a Good conscience and a sincere faith. 1 Timothy 1:5.
...For even if there are so-called gods whether in heaven or on earth, as indeed there are many gods and many lords, yet for us there is ONE GOD, The FATHER, From WHOM Are All Things, and we for HIM; And ONE LORD, JESUS CHRIST, By WHOM Are All Things, and we Through HIM.
However not all men have this Knowledge; but some, being accustomed to the idol until now, eat food as thought it were sacrificed to an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled ( ...for The Kingdom Of GOD is not eating and drinking, but Righteousness And Peace And Joy In The HOLY SPIRIT. For he who in This serves CHRIST is acceptable to GOD and approved by men. So then we pursue the Things which make for Peace and the Building Up of one another. Romans 14:17-19. [ 1 Corinthians 3:7-9]).
But food will not commend us to GOD; we are neither the worse if we do not eat, nor the better if we do eat. But take care lest this Liberty of yours somehow become a stumbling block to the weak (Luke 17:1-4). For if someone sees you, who have Knowledge, dining in an idol's temple, will not his conscience, if he is weak, be strengthened to eat things sacrificed to idols? For through your knowledge he who is weak is ruined, the Brother for whose sake CHRIST Died. And thus, by sinning against the Brethren and wounding their conscience when it is weak, you sin against CHRIST.
Therefore, if food causes my Brother to stumble, I will never eat meat again, that I might not cause my Brother to stumble (Romans 14:20-21). 1 Corinthians 8:5-13.
Always it is both our words spoken and examples evidenced in and by our deeds, even when we are not mindful another is watching, or even, that another may stumble because of us (and GOD Sees All things; Job 34:21-30). ...For each one shall bear his own load... Galatians 6:5.
Judgment: opinion or decision given concerning and determining right and wrong.
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with Righteous judgment." John 7:24.
In the meanwhile the Disciples were requesting HIM, saying, "RABBI, eat." But HE Said To them, "MY Food is to do The Will Of HIM WHO Sent ME, and to Accomplish HIS Work... John 4:31-32.
"MY Teaching is not MINE, but HIS WHO Sent ME. "If any man is willing to do HIS Will, he shall know of the Teaching, whether it is Of GOD, or I Speak from MYSELF. "He who speaks from himself seeks his own glory; but HE WHO Is Seeking The Glory Of The ONE WHO Sent HIM, HE Is True, and there is no unrighteousness in HIM. John 7:16-18.
Be imitators of me, just as I also am of CHRIST. 1 Corinthians 11:1.
For we did not follow cleverly devised tales when we made known to you The Power and The Coming Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST, but we were eyewitnesses of HIS MAJESTY. For when HE Received Honour And Glory From GOD The FATHER, such an Utterance as This Was Made To HIM By The MAJESTIC GLORY, "This Is MY Beloved SON With WHOM I AM Well-Pleased" - and we ourselves heard this Utterance Made From Heaven when we were with HIM on The Holy Mountain (Mark 9:1-13, Luke 9:28-36).
And we have The Prophetic Word more sure, to Which you do well to pay attention as to a lamp shining in a dark place, until The Day Dawns and The MORNING STAR Arises in your hearts.
But know this first of all, that no Prophecy Of Scripture is of one's own interpretation, for no Prophecy was ever made by an act of human will, but men Moved By The HOLY SPIRIT Spoke From GOD.
But false prophets also arose among the people, just as there will also be false teachers among you, who will secretly introduce destructive heresies, even denying The MASTER WHO Bought them (Acts 20:28-30), bringing swift Destruction upon themselves. And many will follow their sensuality, and because of then The Way Of The Truth will be maligned; and in greed (covetousness, greedy desire to have more than what is Given) they will exploit you with false words; their Judgment from long ago is not idle (Revelation 22:10-16), and their Destruction is not asleep ( 2 Thessalonians 1:3-12). 2 Peter 1:16 - 2:3.
"Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with Righteous judgment." John 7:24.
For the overseer must be above reproach as GOD'S steward, not self-willed, not quick-tempered, not adicted to wine, not pugnacious, not fond of sordid gain, but hospitable, loving what is Good, sensible, just, devout, self-controlled, holding fast The Faithful Word which is in accordance with The Teaching, that he may be able to both exhort in Sound Doctrine and to refute those who contradict...
...not paying attention to Jewish myths and commandments of men who turn away from The Truth. To the pure, all things are pure; but to those who are defiled and unbelieving, nothing is pure (nothing can be pure!), but both their mind and their conscience are defiled. They profess to know GOD, but by deeds they deny, being detestable and disobedient, and worthless for any good deed. Titus 1:7-9 & v14-16.
And in this context, reading even from Romans chapter 12, through into chapter 13, and again into chapter 14, into what we have as chapter 15 of Romans,
Now we who are strong ought to bear the weaknesses of those without strength and not please ourselves ( Galatians 5:16-17, Philippians 2:1-5). Let each of us please his neighbour for his good (Romans 13:8-14, Galatians 5:13-18), to his edification. For even CHRIST did not please HIMSELF; but as It Is Written, "The reproaches of those who reproached THEE fell upon ME." For whatever was Written in earlier times was Written for our Instruction, that through perseverance and the encouragement Of The Scriptures we might have Hope.
Now may The GOD WHO Gives Perseverance And Encouragement Grant you to be of the same mind with one another according to CHRIST JESUS (and in manner of no other); that with One Accord you may with One Voice Glorify The GOD And FATHER Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST. Wherefore, accept one another, ( in like manner and in the manner of no other) just as CHRIST Accepted us to The Glory Of GOD (John 17:13-26). Romans 15:1-7.
...Do not be deceived, my Beloved Brethren. Every Good Thing Bestowed and Every Perfect Gift Is From Above, Coming Down From The FATHER Of Lights, With WHOM there is no variation or shifting shadow. In The Exercise Of HIS Will HE Brought us forth By The Word Of Truth, so that we might be, as it were, the first fruits among HIS creatures.
Know this, my Beloved Brethren.
But let everyone be quick to hear, slow to speak slow to anger; for the anger of man does not achieve The Righteousness Of GOD. Therefore putting aside all filthiness and that remains of wickedness, in humility Receive The Word Implanted, Which Is Able to Save your souls. But prove yourselves doers of The Word, and not merely hearers who delude themselves... James 1:16-22.
The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before GOD. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves. Romans 14:22.
Jude.
Hi Paul.
I want to first apologize to you for my last post of Romans 14. It was unfair to you. The Chapter contains some Scripture that do address some issues of earlier posts but my main reason for posting it here is because I did not think it practical to post anywhere else. Notes would be very fragmented to say the least if one tries to post such a long passage.
Romans 14 also shows the larger context of Scripture discussion as it addresses how we are to relate to each other. There is room for believers to have different convictions based on where they are at but it is wrong for one believer to judge or despise another believer in "disputable matters." We are to pursue peace and love and not put a "stumbling block" in front of a brother or sister.
Your responses require careful consideration as there is much to digest in them. I will reread what you have had to say and respond if so moved. Again, please accept my apology of not providing any context with my last post.
May you be blessed in all that you undertake.
In Christ,
John
Yes John, just as we are instructed to do, and absolutely must do so. Iron sharpens iron (Proverbs 27:17-19).
Do not quench The SPIRIT; do not despise Prophetic utterances. But examine everything; hold fast to that which is Good; abstain from every form of evil.
Now may The GOD Of Peace HIMSELF Sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be Preserved Complete, without blame at The Coming Of our LORD JESUS CHRIST. Faithful Is HE WHO Calls you, and HE also will bring it to pass. 1 Thessalonians 5:19-24.
And again,
Remember those who led you, who spoke The Word Of GOD to you; and considering the result of their conduct, imitate their faith. JESUS CHRIST, The Same yesterday and today and forever. Do not be carried away by strange and varied teachings; for it is good for the heart to be strengthened by Grace,... Hebrews 13:7-9a
And from the Mouth Of our LORD And MASTER in the days of HIS Flesh, and if we will confess that JESUS CHRIST Has Come in the flesh, then it is that we will be agreeing with HIM in Word and Deed (1 John 4:1-6).
...And HE was Saying To them, "A lamp is not brought to be put under a peck-measure, is it, or under a bed? Is it not to be put on the lampstand? "For nothing is Hidden, except to be Revealed; nor has been secret, but that it should come to light. "If any man has ears to hear, let him hear." And HE was Saying To them, "Take care what you listen to. By your standard of measure it shall be Measured To you; and more shall be Given you besides. "For whoever has, To him shall be Given; and whoever does not have, even what he has shall be taken away from him."... Mark 4:21-25 (Luke 8:5-21).
He who corrects a scoffer gets dishonour for himself, And he who reproves a wicked man insults for himself. Do not reprove a scoffer, lest he hate you, Reprove a wise man, and he will love you. Give to a wise man, and he will be still wiser, Teach a Righteous man, and he will increase learning.
The fear of The LORD is the beginning of Wisdom, And The Knowledge Of The Holy ONE Is Understanding. For By ME your days will be multiplied, And years of life will be added to you (1 Corinthians 1:30-31, 1 Peter 1:2, 2 Peter 1:2).
If you are wise, you are wise for yourself, And if you scoff, you alone will bear it. Proverbs 9:7-12.
I know God does not contradict Himself but it is difficult for us to understand different Scriptures on a related topic when in our own understanding they seem to contradict each other. If we engage in a quest for truth in a spirit of love and humility we will be like iron sharpening iron and we will gain a better understanding of Jesus.
Here are some Scriptures to consider and explore how they may be reconciled.
"8If we say we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 9If we confess our sins, He is faithful and just to forgive us our sins and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness. 10If we say we have not sinned, we make Him out to be a liar, and His word is not in us.…" (1 John 1:8-10, Berean Study Bible.)
Consider also 1:John 3:6, "6Whoever abides in Him does not sin. Whoever sins has neither seen Him nor known Him."
Does a new creation in Christ have sin? Or is that something that has been washed away by the blood of Jesus Christ when the person was born again?
We know we are transformed by the renewing of our minds (Romans 12:2) and we have been given a new heart and our spirits have come alive to God (Ezekiel 36:26) when we were born again but the process of transforming the soul is a work in progress. God sees us in Christ Jesus but we have fleshly carnal patterns that do not reflect who we are in Christ.