Is the rating system unfair?

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jooe15

Over the last couple of days I have been feeling more and more like the bughouse rating system is just not fair. The system seems to award rating points equity across both players on a team. While that seems fine, in practice, it just doesn't work out well. Pairing with somebody significantly weaker than you will wreck havoc on your rating. -- Like wise, pairing with somebody better than you will give you in artificially high rating. 

 

Anyone else notice this? Opinions?

Jack_Kern

yeah it's kind of hard to climb, especially with the few amount of games you get. 

I_Ahmed

I haven't played yet. But after all its team games. Maybe rating should mark as team rating..

cwfrank
jooe15 wrote:

Anyone else notice this? Opinions?

 

I'm okay with it ... for now ... as an audience grows and people adopt the various chess variants.

 

But, I should also add that I understand your concern. (Just the other night I let an auto-abort happen against a pair of players that were just crushing random pairs.)

 

I've noticed that the portion of points across two players and ratings might be, or appears to be, at first glance, proportional. (Maybe, I haven't scrutinized this closely. I'm not a very good chess player, but I love Bughouse, and I'm just happy to play.)

 

When I can review games and see stuff in my stats better -- I'll probably scrutinize this more closely. So, I'm just happy to play, but, I also agree with your thoughts / concerns.

 

As of right now, I don't see "Bughouse" or other new variant game stats available in my stats. (And I'm adjusting to the v3 interface.)

ChessMN16

cwfrank: You can view your bughouse games under your blitz games. Smile

Anyway, being a good bughouse player is all about "carrying" a weaker partner, so you only have yourself to blame. Of course, I can't expect to win vs. two strong players when I have a weak partner, but I can always strategize to do so. For example, today I won quite a lot of games by flagging my strong opponent and having my weaker partner just not get flagged himself (many games we won where he had under 5 seconds on his clock).

Also, when you're a weaker player, yes, it is quite helpful if you get a strong partner, but don't forget: whatever inflated rating you get will soon fall down when you do something stupid that makes your partner lose Wink. The stronger player should carry the team and never blame his partner, but losing is bound to happen with a weaker partner!

In conclusion, I think the rating balances itself out. Besides, the ratings are horribly deflated right now. People like sexy_and_I_know_it, MMichael, croskie, and KyleLegion are nowhere near 1800-2200 in bughouse. And to give JannLee anything less than a 2700 bughouse rating is crazy, LOL.

cwfrank
ChessMN16 wrote:

cwfrank: You can view your bughouse games under your blitz games. 

 

Thank you for that tip... I didn't know / realize it. (Still getting used to the v3 interface.) That's super-helpful. Thank You.

 

=====

 

EDIT: 

I checked my blitz games, and, it doesn't show the other board. Only the game I played against, not my team-member's game board. The notes say "Bughouse," but this means absolutely nothing if you can't see the other board to analyze a move. (I.e. why a piece suddenly appears on a board, if you're looking at this totally-screwed-up-looking game for the first time when browsing through other players' games and you're not familiar with Bughouse. Seeing the other board is essential to understanding play as it pertains to review / analysis. Secondary to that... showing time... is as relevant to this as a team-sport, as 1v1 chess.)

 

cwfrank
ChessMN16 wrote:

1.) Anyway, being a good bughouse player is all about "carrying" a weaker partner, so you only have yourself to blame.

 

2.) Also, when you're a weaker player, yes, it is quite helpful if you get a strong partner, but don't forget: whatever inflated rating you get will soon fall down when you do something stupid that makes your partner lose .

 

3.) The stronger player should carry the team and never blame his partner, but losing is bound to happen with a weaker partner!

 

5.) People like sexy_and_I_know_it, MMichael, croskie, and KyleLegion are nowhere near 1800-2200 in bughouse. And to give JannLee anything less than a 2700 bughouse rating is crazy, LOL.

 

I cut-up what you said into numbered parts above.

 

1.) Sort-of agree. Same as learning standard chess... you have to give people time, teach them, allow them to come along. On the other hand, Bughouse is more cut-throat than your standard: "Are you sure you want to do that, you might want to take that move back" (as your teaching a novice). You still have to play, and Bughouse is a team sport, where you need to learn to look at the clock, two boards, and pieces on the side as well... and it takes time to learn to set a habit or pattern. (And sometimes, or often, I make mistakes and don't look and screw games up pretty bad.)

 

2.) My view is the other way around... while I'm typically or traditionally the weaker player, I don't think it's a stronger team member's responsibility to carry me. Sometimes, maybe. But, for the most part, you need to be able hold your own. Listen, take direction, etc... (harder when you're online, versus OTB). Most Bughouse players, online, will have first learned... offline (OTB)... else, this could be as discouraging as trying to learn Go online.

 

3.) See above. Losing is bound to happen for at least one team even if everyone has approximately the same rating (2:2). So... no blame. (But, sometimes, when you recognize your own fault... you say things like: "My bad," and other times you get irritated at things like the difference between material players and strategic players. (See below.)

 

3.b.) There are different types of players, strategies, and teams. Playing "random," you get mixing and matching of strategy and preference. For example, since I'm usually the weaker player (IRL, OTB), I'm usually listening to direction and feeing material to a more experienced player. On the other hand, maybe a more experienced player (online), doesn't like this, and prefers I stall or play conservatively, and not give-up pieces. And, then, on the other hand, even if you try to stall and play conservatively, sometimes you go up against people who sacrifice like crazy for a game-plan, and then, with all of the exchanges and being torn to shreds, you've got open board from sacrifice-crazy while your conservative (more experienced) team member is not feeding you material to defend while going on the defensive with whatever you can give.

 

3.c.) Bughouse can be a vicious (team) sport. It ain't nothin' like a highly experienced standard player thrashing you at 960. (Despite the fact a few 960 variants are known for giving an extreme opening advantage, even to disadvantaged players. (One of) The supposed equalizing factor in this variant.)

 

4.) Damn, I know a few of those names... but you know a few more... thanks for the heads-up.

 

ChessMN16

Here, for example:

 

https://www.chess.com/live/game/1726296710

 

You can just press the "Partner Bughouse game" button and it'll take you to...your partner's bughouse game tongue.png.

 

 

1) Of course it takes a lot of time to understand what's happening in bughouse! That's the beauty of the game! I started playing crazyhouse in January and have been playing rather intensively since then, so I've gotten used to this "drop" variant. Trust me, it gets easier with time. I focus on my opponent's board more than I do mine, and I always keep an eye on what he might need.

2) Hmm, interesting point of the learning first OTB part. Yeah, I've been playing bug for a year OTB with some friends and only three days now online. Anyway, it IS the stronger player's responsibility to carry the team; how would he be a strong player if he kept losing tongue.png?

 

3) Yup yup.

 

3) b) Hehe, tell me about it. The thing is, though, the strong bughouse player is in tune with what his partner needs. If you're getting saced on, your strong partner will notice this and do some crafty moves that keep the piece trades to a minimum. If you have a crushing attack, your opponent, of course, will do his best to trade as many pieces as possible.

 

3) c) You should play against two strong partners. Openings matter A LOT in bughouse.

 

4) Yup. Usually the 2000+ bug players on chess.com are some of the best in the world at bug. The ratings are still very deflated ATM.

cwfrank

Thanks again @ChessMN16 !!!

Matir
I_Ahmed wrote:

I haven't played yet. But after all its team games. Maybe rating should mark as team rating..

 

But then if you team up with a different player every time you have to restart