Monroi-type iPhone app?

I wish Monroi would make an iPhone app. I can’t imagine it would be very hard. The UI would look nicer, and I’m sure it could be priced well enough to make profit on just the app and not the hardware. Anybody else think $350 for a product that does nothing but chess notation is a bit ridiculous?  

Bearing in mind that there could be potential issues with iPhone/iPod apps and cheating, would you feel comfortable allowing your opponent to use an app on their iPhone/iPod?  If so, what do you think the conditions of use should be (like not being allowed to remove the device from the table, must be run in airplane mode, etc)?

Good points.  The price point on those things is a bit hard to bear, but I don't think the idea of a smart-phone approach is likely to fly with governing bodies.  The whole Monroi value proposition is wrapped up in the fact that the device features are dedicated (no analysis) and its proprietary wireless networking is more secure than that provided on other commercial wifi devices.

I'm not sure I'd be comfortable with my opponent using their iPhone.. My iPhone has about eight different chess AIs on it (apps installed locally), so Airplane Mode isn't a guarantee against naughtiness if someone has to go get a drink or use the washroom.

Well if you don't mine buying a PocketPC there is a piece of software called eNotate. It has been approved but the USCF to be used in tournament play. It basically does not let you exit the application until you have finished recording the game. I picked up a used Dell Axim x50v for like $40.00 bucks on ebay and then $15.00 for the app. It's a lot cheaper that buying a Monroi the only down side is it does not send the game wireless to monitors, however I have not played in a tournament large enough to offer support for that. Also there is a ton of good software for the PocketPC for learning chess not to mention Fritz works on PocketPC.

Trust me I would perfer an app on the iPhone/iPad/iTouch however I dont know the first thing about programing. A die hard Apple fan can dream though

This is a good idea and one I have been thinking about for several months.  I believe I have a solution to get around some of the obvious concerns and am currently working on a prototype.  Please check back with me the first of the year to see how this is going.

Ok, how goes the app development?

Pretty non-existant now...  I took a job as an iOS developer with a company, but that leaves very little free time for doing my own stuff.

I myself I am working on something similiar, I am currently going to school for IOS programming. My goal is to have something working by the end of the year. The major problem with this type of application is you can use the home button to leave at any time so there are ways to cheat. Because the Monroi is it's own system it easier to control cheating. Because the iDevices are multi application systems, you have to design with-in Apples constraints so it makes it more difficult to build an application like this. Also more difficult to get it certified by the USCF and also FIDE. It's basically an uphill battle the whole way! Like I said, will see what comes of it.

The cheating problem is tough.  I'm a low-level chess player with an iPod Touch.  In my local chess club, we record games on paper as if we're in a tournament, so we can review our moves post-game, as a learning exercise.  We all make recording mistakes, usually missed moves, black/white swaps, or mistaken squares.  There's often some erasing, fixing and groaning.  An app that records moves would help prevent these mistakes.  It would also help our members who analyze games with software.  Today, these members go home and type games into Fritz manually.  We'd like such an app, and would ignore the cheating and certification issues.  I might be able to help write such an app.  I have a Mac, experience with C, some with Objective-C, and none with IOS.

The best you can do is to log when the device is moved into a suspended state (such as when the lockscreen appears or the app switcher appears) and when it moves into the background (homescreen is brought up, another application is brought into the foreground).  You can also record the network status, and the time that your app was backgrounded (suspended isn't really an issue, since it would make sense to put the lock screen on during a very long game).  

Basically, my thoughts were always that you could refuse to let the app run if there was any network connectivity available, and that couldn't be switched without leaving the app, so you could log whenever the app was left (at least while it was in a game) and for how long it was in the background.  Obviously this doesn't give any conclusive evidence to whether cheating occured, but one would be able to verify that the application was continously run for the entire game if it was never put into the background, which would be conclusive evidence of not cheating.  Furthermore, since the app would require that there is no network connectivity, it follows that the app would never be backgrounded for phone calls and wouldn't receive any push notifications like SMS during a game.  I believe that if very strict guidelines were placed on how the iOS device could be used that it could be as effective as a MonRoi or eNotate.

One could require that the game activity logs be available to the TD and opponent for every game in the tournament, and that suspicious activities will be investigated with the aid of the activity log.  Some people might say that it would be unreasonable to use information that gives only limited information about when the app was backgrounded.  However, I think that it would help reduce the fears of cheating.  Consider if your opponent had a MonRoi and an iPhone.  If your opponent leaves the board, they will probably take their phone with them.  You have no idea what happens with the phone while they're gone - maybe they make a casual call or check text messages or email, but maybe they cheat.  If you are using the iPhone as a notation device, it would have to comply with the regulation that electronic notation devices must stay on the table at all times.  It would be obvious that the user was not making or receiving calls/texts/emails, and any extended "fiddling" with the device would be easily noticed.

Clearly MonRoi is much more locked down (though I'm still waiting for somebody to gut one and put their own device in, just to prove that it's not as secure as everybody thinks), and even eNotate has some semblence of device lockdown.  However, for the reasons listed above, I believe that an activity log, requirement of no network connectivity, and the general guidelines for an electronic notation device would provide enough transparency to make iOS a viable platform for electronic notation.

This is a good discussion.  We are working on a work around for suspended games.  What we have not solved is push activity while the game is in notation mode. 

If your opponent leaves the board, they will probably take their phone with them.

We had this happen at one of our tournaments where I was TDing, and their where some players that felt the user was cheating as he won the Open Section. Because this happened during one game he was asked to leave the device on the table at all times for the remainder of the tournament. However this specific device was an Android with some "notation" software installed. Sadly even tracking background processes and such is still not a satisfactory solution even as full proof as it sounds. The problem is, now it's just one more thing a TD needs to deal with during a tournament. Verifying how long a player switched from the notation app to another app and what guidelines are acceptable for this time limit?

No matter what notation software is designed for an iDevice I feel it's a no win situation. Plus getting it approved for the USCF is just one more battle to have to overcome once you figure how to deal with the home button aspect of being able to leave the game. Until Apple allows the developer to prompt a message when hitting home on a specific application there is no way to clearly allow someone to use one of these devices as one can always find a way to cheat. As much as I would like to say I have figured out a solution for the app I am working on, I keep finding ways to get around it.

No solution is truly perfect, really.  If you're using a Monroi, you could easily start fiddling with it and analyze positions on the electronic board - unless somebody was paying close attention you'd get away with it.  Same thing with eNotate, and then you could even exit out of the game by saving it, run some other software, and start a new game if nobody was paying attention.  I think that the biggest problem would be convincing players who wanted to use their device that they would have to leave it on the table - I believe that having devices stolen is a far more prominent problem than using them for cheating.

Here is a working link

http://itunes.apple.com/us/app/chess-score-sheet/id436676904?mt=8

There ya go time to stick with Windows Pocket PC and get eNotate since it's the cheapest one on the market.

Do you have a reference to the updated score sheet policy?

..so, I can't use the "Chess Box" app on my 3GS in a USCF tournament? 

I haven't completely figured the Notation function within the Chess Box app but if I can eventually figure it out, I don't see a problem with any honest chess competitor using it to record and archive his games. 

Folks, check out ChessScribe on the Apple AppStore - ChessScribe is an iPhone, iPod touch and iPad app for Chess Notation, made by professional chess players in the USA.  We would love to hear feedback!  We're on FB and Twitter as well.

http://bit.ly/qtv6Cr

http://bit.ly/ncH5nj

We are finally approaching release of our chess score sheet app for iPads. Visit Chess-Coach.net to sign-up for beta.

Chess Score Pad Tournament Edition (Chess Score Pad - Electronic Chess Scoresheet for the iPhone, iPod Touch and iPad) solves the issues mentioned here.  This is detailed in the user guide (Chess Score Pad Tournament Edition iPod Users Guide).

It has been submitted to the USCF for certification and I expect that it will be certified.