Move 21. Conditional Move Thread

Andrewlong, you have forgot a key candidate and one that seems best- Rxc4!

vyomo - yes definitely a candidate... i think 22... Nfd5 is better than the options you presented though. I think a line would be 21. Rxc4 Rxc4 22. Qxc4 Nfd5 23. e4 Rc8 then maybe 24. Qd3 Nf4 or Nc2... again no comparison across the 21... moves yet though, so I cant say which move is better

andrewlong, Nfd5? e4! Rc8 Qb5!! is the move you missed, now white gets either knight.

not necessarily... Nc2 still looks good there... more later

andrewlong, he will simply play exd5 and after Nxa1 Bxa1 and after we take on d5, its B and N vs R and P, draw at the most

vyomo - you seem to be correct about Rxc4 Rxc4 Qxc4 Nfd5 so I will not look into that line further. Regarding your line(s)... i do not really like the resulting position. White seems well advanced while we have retreated and our knight is on the rim. Why do you characterize this as the best option? All I can see right now is try to force a knight trade via b8 and then if he refuses, we can still attack the knight on other squares based too getting the knight more active..

vegetableman - i was looking for your diagram earlier... we have different responses to Nfd5, and different responses to Nfd5 e4, but I think both show it is a superior move. Do you have opinion on Nc6?

Andrewlong, after Rc7, the knight is heavily pinned and after Nb8, the pin is even more powerful. If Nbd5, the knight cannot go to b8 and increase the effect of the pin

Rxc4 in response to Rxc4 seems best

Vyomo, I am still seeing quite a different picture than what you say, as the position after our Rxc4 (say, Qxc4) leaves us in a drawish at best position.  I believe it is important to use our knight in the next move.

We must decide in two hours (to be really effective, give-or-take) between Nc6 or Nfd5.

Hople, Rxc4 provokes Nc6 and as I have shown, a good battle that is not drawish

Also, Rxc4 trades off an attacking rook for a reasonably passive rook, a good exchange.

The huge issue with Nfd5 is e4 and the knight has no good square.

Also, after Rxc4 Rxc4 Qxc4 Na6! The position is very lively with loads of tactics

Please provide a justification of why you feel it is drawish

I apologize, but I have got to get to bed.  I feel that Vyomo deserves a diagram, but I am not going to be able to produce one.  

Let me just say, looking at your own diagram Vyomo, that giving white such a good knight and black such a bad knight makes us losers perhaps.  You leave off at a point, I believe, that the white attack will just begin.  Our situation is dire in the final place of your own diagram (to my mind:  forgive the lack of substantiation, but don't you really have to look beyond the point at which you leave us to bear out your theory?).

I leave it at:  I don't really want to play the GM with THAT board if I can avoid it.

Also, it appears that gmeilloc and Veg'Man have a decent variation away from e4 after Nfd5, for example.  If the good GM moves that after the knight move, there comes much play for black it appears (I agree that by definition [like 20.a5] he will not make that move).

Hople, the position improves as I will show

Thanks a lot though for your inputs!

Hi vyomo, I think White can play a better line against 21...Rxc4 22...Na6

21.Rxc4 Rxc4 22.Qxc4 Na6 23.Rc1

now White has control of the c file and a great N on e5 and after Ba3 will have optimised all his pieces

Drakpete, after Nc1, Nfd5 and after e4 Ndc7 and the position is good for black as white no longer has control of the c-file. The a6-knight stays there and takes away the c-5 square. 

I had a close look at VegetableMan's lines for 21. Rxc4 Nfd5 and they all seem sound. I tried a few White alternatives but they mostly head straight for drawn positions. The killer move is Ne3 because the setup with Nc2 and Ne3 is stronger than I expected, because the White DSB is blocked in and can't threaten Ne3.

drakpete, did you look at my line for Nfd5?

@vyomo I should have said Rac1:

I think White can play a better line against 21...Rxc4 22...Na6

21.Rxc4 Rxc4 22.Qxc4 Na6 23.Rac1

now White has control of the c file and a great N on e5 and after Ba3 will have optimised all his pieces

here's a diagram

I couldn't understand Nc1, is that a different line? Thanks, Pete

Hi vyomo, when you say your Nfd5 line do you mean:

21. Rxc4 Nfd5 22.e4

If yes, then it's what VegetableMan said above, 22.e4 by White allows us to reach a drawn position

the only non-drawing move he can make is 22.Rxc8 every other move I tried in this position seems to let us draw