Multiverse

Sorry, did not want to insult you or your faith.

Two weeks ago I asked ; Why is there a universe and they

banned me from the Atheists group. "Why" must be a hard question.

I would say that God created the universe to provide a home for us.  I also would be interested in how the atheists answer that question.

Of course I am not them.  I think I was banned for asking the question "WHY".  Several times I was told I can ask how , but not why, Again I think it was that it may show there is a god.  And I was only banned by one person, but others may have agreed.  They used the expression that science proves there is no god,  and I said it is just the opposite maybe.  On the other hand your answer above is not too good either.   It is a little hard to think god would create something as big as a universe to give a person on earth a home for some.  You know there are about 10**23 planets.   But maybe we should get back to the reasons there are no multiple universes. 

Oh !!!  You could join the group Atheists and read the notes there and maybe tell me what happened.  I'm still banned.  But it was lively, I am sure.   Should add, I am happy either way.  But I was having a lot of fun.

Actually I think it's 5x10**23 stars, not planets, but your point is clear.  With the physics we have it takes a universe that big to get a habitable planet.  If the universe was any bigger or smaller (I have heard as much as a dime bigger, but that has been challenged) then the gravity would have not allowed a habitable planet.  If you want to open a new forum, I can explain the details. 

If God created the universe, as I believe, then the size of the universe or the time it takes to go from the Big Bang to mankind is irrelevant.  Time and space is irrelevant to an infinite God.

I think you might have been banned because you scared them.  Most people, including hard core atheists, don't like it when their worldview is challenged. 

I am not going to join an atheists group.  That would be hypocritical.  Perhaps someone else on this site can let you know what happened.

One does not have to JOIN a group to agree with them.  One may join to enlighten them.  It is an exchange of ideas.  I sure DO NOT agree with just about anyone here.  But trying to enlighten someone is a very hard job.

I like to say;  Why is there a Universe; and; Space is a particle: or Time and distance are discrete.  And ofcourse, there are no multiuniverses. Or best, why a proton is stable in the LHC. There is not another story like it on all of earth.   You would think some one would finally catch on,  but not here so far.  I think I will drop this now,  thank you.

RpaulB, Are you a deist?

Well. one more line.  I DO NOT believe in any thing.  I just follow the facts.

Interesting attitude.  What is your attitude about God? 

I contend you do have believe is some things.  For example, when you sit down you believe the chair will hold you, even if it's a chair you've never seen before.  I doubt you do  stress test on every chair before you sit down.  This is a silly example maybe, but I'm trying to find out what you mean when you say you don't believe in anything.

Right;  I limit what I have said to physics.  

Please, I think we need to get off this subject.  Sorry.

I was invited to this group and I thought this group was about astronomy, not religion. If this content is typical, I'm not interested. I didn't come here to berated by troglodytes.

Fine cnj;  Please tell us your interesting thoughts on astronomy.

I see you did not read the forum.  No wonder you feel berated.

Actually cnj, that's what I intended for this forum too.  We just got to chasing too many rabbits.  My original purpose was to find out who could tell me how the theory of the multiverse got started. 

In my view, the multiverse concept will always be purely academic conjecture for one simple reason, as others have alluded to, anything outside our visible universe (as defined by the "cosmic horizon")  by definition, is inherently unknowable.

However, a discussion of the concept is not without value.

I remember as a child realizing that every decision I made would forever change the universe. Each in a series of binary choices would produce a unique path that because of "the arrow of time" could not be undone.  Moreover, the set of possible outcomes of those binary choices would constitute multiple possible universes... But I could only occupy one.

But those are the musings of a child. Now to a little Physics. One notion of the big bang is that is that it just plain happened by chance!  Empty space isn't empty at all, it is a bubbling cauldron of fields and virtual particles. One of Stephan Hawking's' great discoveries (by mathematical proof) was that even black holes disappear eventually by what is known as "Hawking's Radiation", a kind of "evaporation"... and it works like this: even in empty space, fields will randomly cause particle pairs to spontaneously exist, ALWAYS IN PAIRS, so as to not violate Thermodynamic law... One spins left, the other right... always the net spin,  momentum, electromagnetic charge, etc always remains ZERO as it was.

In strong gravitational fields like near the event horizon of a black hole, this happens A LOT! Well sometimes one of the pair gets sucked into the black hole and one escapes. Thus, little by little, particle by particle, the mass/energy of the black hole evaporates.

The big bang and other spontaneous universes may appear, multiverse fashion, in a similar way where various fields, by pure chance just randomly find that one state where they explode into a universe... Just as particle pairs spontaneously appear.

I can see this is an unsatisfactory explanation so let me give you an anecdote that may be illuminating.

My wife, bitching as usual, whined WHY IS THERE THAT SPOT ON THE CEILING above the kitchen sink?!... I tried to explain to her about forces and probability and how... Wait...

You know how just when you don't want it to happen, something will splash into your eye no matter how careful you are?

Well, a million drops of crap go into that sink every day... a little splash here, a little splash there... but eventually, just by random action, and it may take YEARS!, forces will be JUST SO that a single drop of some crap has enough vertical energy to reach the ceiling .

The origin of any universe may be like that... fields randomly finding that "sweet spot" and BANG!, You've got another universe. Some conjecture that our universe may end because another universe may arise within ours! The expansion would consume OUR universe.

But some big questions still remain, even to engage in such total conjecture. 

Even if one universe can spawn another, or many universes, or if there are an infinite number arising from each one as in my childhood musings... What universe was first and from what did it arise?

There is an enormous difference between "empty space" and "nothingness."  Stephan Hawking claims that our universe could arise spontaneously from nothing, and I'm sure he could support that assertion with a lot of post-graduate level math I couldn't understand (despite my paltry four semesters of higher math).  Nonetheless, I must disagree with Sir Stephan, and he's been wrong before!  His assertion that "information" is lost from the universe as a black hole grows was proven wrong.

From whatever concept of "nothingness" is in Hawking's mind... If Hawking's universe arises from it, than it has an attribute, a characteristic of being able to spawn a universe... AND AN ATTRIBUTE IS NOT "NOTHING."

P.S.  I long ago stopped "dumbing things down" because I found that it was literally making me dumber, I was forcing myself to inhibit my own thought processes and vocabulary to satisfy some "norm".  If there are any terms or concepts or ANYTHING in this you don't understand feel free to ask, or PM me and I'll do my best to share whatever knowledge I have. But be forewarned, every answer just leads to more questions than you started with!

i'd be happy to ask you a question so that you can respond more and better.  Which one would you like me to ask you ?   I do hope this one leads to a lot more questions as you forwarned us.  And my oun question would be, "why would anything be unknowable ?".  An example of that is not even NOTHING is unknowable.