Notation Rule Question

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MasterMatthew52
ChessMasterGS wrote:
MasterMatthew52 wrote:
ChessMasterGS wrote:

My general rule of thumb is to only stop notating when it no longer matters for review and/or when time trouble is extremely bad

Might want to watch out with that to make sure someone doesn't complain and you get penalized. You still have to notate in USCF even if it "doesn't matter".

Well of course I’ll never stop notating when it’s required by rule, more like when I have 2 minutes left in 5 sec increment controls

Ah, I see. Yeah usually the TD will make an announcement if notation is required throughout the entire game. That should be fine.

modderman8
Ziryab wrote:
modderman8 wrote:
ChessMasterGS wrote:

I was playing in a classical USCF game today at a tournament, and my opponent called me out for writing down a move, crossing it out (I realized the move was a blunder), writing another move down, and then making it. 
The TD gave my opponent 2 extra minutes as a penalty and after I won the game I checked and there is indeed a rule on what I did with my notation. 
(In case it’s not clear, look at the paragraph above this ^)
Has anybody ever witnessed a game where somebody wrote down entire lines for a position? It must’ve happened at least once if this rule exists…

As a TD myself, I can say that this IS in fact against the rules, as you are required to make your move before writing it down, because it CAN be considered using written notes to your advantage during a game. I think it's a bit of a stupid rule, but I can understand why someone would be upset if their opponent wrote down a move, analyzed for 15 minutes, and then changed their move because they found something better. As far as I know, the rule was more so because of electronic scoresheets, which would allow someone to look at the position if that move were to be made, but it's not really an issue otherwise. If someone claims that their opponent does this, I as a TD would have to penalize the player, but I'll rarely forfeit them (which is considered a reasonable response) unless I have reason to do otherwise. Hope this helps!

Please see USCF Rule 15A (Variation I), p. 46 of US Chess Federation Official Rules of Chess, 7th ed.
What you say is "against the rules" was a recent change several years ago that met a fair degree of resistance from many TDs, provoking the USCF to allow the old rule at the TD's discretion.
As a TD, you know that the rule was changed to bring USCF rules into conformity with FIDE.

Yeah, I knew that. I figured that it wasn't super important, since in OP's story, they were penalized. Plenty of TDs allow it, and like I said, I'll only call it if someone claims it, since I personally believe that, while stupid, it has some reason to it. Most of the time, the "penalty" I'll issue will be a warning, but there are variations to the rules.

modderman8
jabsnee wrote:

can't you stop recording moves when your time gets below..? 5 minutes or less can't remember

Other people have answered this correctly, but I thought I should add on. In USCF tournaments, neither player has to notate after one player drops below 5 minutes of time, with one exception- if the time control has an increment or delay of 30 seconds or more, then you MUST notate, no matter how low your time is. In FIDE events, however, you must notate, regardless of how much time is left on the clock. Hope this helps!

the_potmo

I don't think the issue is with "veteran". When I was an OTB player, 30 plus years ago, almost nobody ever wrote their moves down first. A few people did, and usually blocked what the move was with their pencil, but I see no advantage in doing this and, if anything, it is a disadvantage as you give your opponent an opportunity to analyze a move they may not have considered, on your time. If you can't remember what move you are analyzing, I don't think you will have much success either way. So the rule is silly, calling the TD to get a penalty is lame, and penalizing without a warning of any sort, is also lame. In this case, with the complainer having so much less time, perhaps the TD figured that those two minutes were irrelevant for the game, and would shut up the whining player, so I guess his actions were OK.

modderman8
the_potmo wrote:

I don't think the issue is with "veteran". When I was an OTB player, 30 plus years ago, almost nobody ever wrote their moves down first. A few people did, and usually blocked what the move was with their pencil, but I see no advantage in doing this and, if anything, it is a disadvantage as you give your opponent an opportunity to analyze a move they may not have considered, on your time. If you can't remember what move you are analyzing, I don't think you will have much success either way. So the rule is silly, calling the TD to get a penalty is lame, and penalizing without a warning of any sort, is also lame. In this case, with the complainer having so much less time, perhaps the TD figured that those two minutes were irrelevant for the game, and would shut up the whining player, so I guess his actions were OK.

Multiple people I've talked to about the rule, including a national master and an NTD, mostly agree on one main thing- player's coaches telling them to do this. It's apparently supposed to help players slow down and think

fpawn
In FIDE events, however, you must notate, regardless of how much time is left on the clock. Hope this helps!

False! The same rule as USCF about having less than 5 minutes left, except with 30 second increment or delay, applies. Of course, 30 second increment is common, but not universal, in classical FIDE tournaments.

modderman8
fpawn wrote:
In FIDE events, however, you must notate, regardless of how much time is left on the clock. Hope this helps!

False! The same rule as USCF about having less than 5 minutes left, except with 30 second increment or delay, applies. Of course, 30 second increment is common, but not universal, in classical FIDE tournaments.

You’re right- I misinterpreted what the rule said. In FIDE tournaments, you DO have to keep notating if your opponent has less than 5 minutes left, however. That’s what I should’ve said.

DrHoward

MasterMatthew52 said, " Guess that TD wasn't really qualified."

Like any other skill we have to start somewhere. Tournament directors have rankings based on their experience. The rank we start with, club TD, is earned by claiming to have read the rules. It's a thick book that we can't expect someone to remember early in the career as a TD, but hopefully if an issue arises they remember something about it somewhere in the book. So they direct tournaments that have no critical issues--small or no prizes, no title norms at stake.

modderman8
DrHoward wrote:

MasterMatthew52 said, " Guess that TD wasn't really qualified."

Like any other skill we have to start somewhere. Tournament directors have rankings based on their experience. The rank we start with, club TD, is earned by claiming to have read the rules. It's a thick book that we can't expect someone to remember early in the career as a TD, but hopefully if an issue arises they remember something about it somewhere in the book. So they direct tournaments that have no critical issues--small or no prizes, no title norms at stake.

I mean, you really only NEED to read the first chapter or 2, the rules are the most important thing. You should still read the whole thing though

DrHoward

No, Modderman8, the rules don't end with chapter 2.

modderman8
DrHoward wrote:

No, Modderman8, the rules don't end with chapter 2.

I know. What I'm saying is that the majority of the rules that will be applicable are in the first two chapters. You absolutely SHOULD read every chapter, but if you just want to help direct a tournament for a local club or something small like that, the first two chapters are the most important by far. I worded my response poorly, and I apologize for that.

DrHoward

Thank you for the explanation, modderman8. I hope you continue playing the game.