Opening Theory (teams): Control of the ?corners?

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Avatar of VAOhlman


Watching a bunch of games and playing some, I have a comment that I would love to get responses to:

It seems to me that the standard chess idea of 'control of the center' is null and void in 4pc(teams). However there does seem to be some very small idea of 'control of the corner'. I haven't really formulated my ideas yet, but pushing your rook pawn and/ then your knight pawn in support seems to be a 'thing'. It almost seems more tactical than strategic, however. It blocks a bishop attack, it moves a knight away, etc.

But in 4pc(teams) this seems to me to be the only even close to strategic use of pawns that I have seen.

Comments?

Avatar of username_noob

Rooks are always trapped at the corners.. I think this kinda needs to be changed.

Avatar of username_noob

like its very hard to get them out since there are 3 players surrounding you with total of 6 rooks

Avatar of VAOhlman

Yes, a good point. Pawn moves in the corner also have the strategic objective of 'releasing' the rooks.

Avatar of username_noob

Yup.br.png

Avatar of GDII

In 4-player chess your closest enemies are on the left and right. The player across from you is too far away to form an immediate threat (or it is your teammate in the Teams variant). So, in that sense it's only natural that the flanks are more important compared to regular chess. The flanks are also the only areas you can control directly with your pawns — it takes several pawn moves before you get to the center.

However, I don't think the idea of 'control over the center' is void. In 4-player chess you may not control the center with pawns, but you can still control the center with pieces. In FFA, if you can control the center, you can queen your pawns and prevent others from queening. In Teams, controlling the center of the board usually means you have the initiative and have the better attacking chances.

Avatar of VAOhlman

I was speaking specifically of teams, FFA with its wild center queening is a whole different game happy.png
I get what you say about controlling the center with pieces, but I must say I have not seen it done much except for brief tactics. I think one reason is because the center is so large in 4pc(teams) that effective control is not really possible.
But if you have some good example games I would love to look them up and see...

Avatar of username_noob

I'm not sure about this one..

https://www.chess.com/4-player-chess?g=163885

Avatar of GDII

Sorry, I missed the part in brackets that said 'teams' tongue.png

 

I think an obvious example is getting the queens out early. Queens are very effective at controlling the center. Red and yellow often have the initiative at the start of the game, because they get to bring their queens out first and they try to prevent blue and green from doing the same by immediately creating threats.

Another example is bringing the rooks to the center in the endgame. The side with active rooks usually has the better winning chances.

Avatar of username_noob

You mean this one? Rooks at endgame?

https://www.chess.com/4-player-chess?g=163795

Avatar of username_noob

Though rooks are stuck in corners, there are very useful at endgame.

Avatar of username_noob

Just like you said.grin.png

Avatar of VAOhlman
GDII wrote:

Sorry, I missed the part in brackets that said 'teams'

 

I think an obvious example is getting the queens out early. Queens are very effective at controlling the center. Red and yellow often have the initiative at the start of the game, because they get to bring their queens out first and they try to prevent blue and green from doing the same by immediately creating threats.

Another example is bringing the rooks to the center in the endgame. The side with active rooks usually has the better winning chances.

GDII would love to have your input on my paper that I am working on opening theory. So far most of the stronger openings are designed to prevent this sort of red/yellow dominance, and I have seen stats that said that red/yellow do not actually have an advantage, at least as far as the stats show. I think  @BabYagun published those stats somewhere.

Avatar of tommerrall949

So there is certainly a strategy concerning pushing the rook's pawn @VAOhlman. Whenever a player wither side of you brings a knight out, by pushing the corresponding rook pawn you immediately stop that knight from moving towards your king. As knights are so powerful, thisis really important. It also lets your rook come out faster during an endgame. Send that paper over and I'll be happy to read it.

Avatar of VAOhlman

 >>Send that paper over and I'll be happy to read it.

Not sure how to send a paper. Chess.com messaging does not seem to allow attachments.

Avatar of liquid-sun

As @GDII stated, controlling the center of the board with the queens, specifically attacking the "f7" squares for the other team, is like controlling the center of the board in regular chess. Diagonal control without queen interaction, via knight checks etc., is fairly limited IMO.

Avatar of liquid-sun

Here is an example of center control with the queens:

https://www.chess.com/4-player-chess?g=147996-16