Resigned Kings should not offer +20 points upon capture

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duongle0289

When a player resigns in the opening of the game, one of the remaining lucky players can capture the resigned king and gain an easy advantage.

Perhaps it would be more fair if resigned kings offer +10 upon capture, and any player's resignation will take effect 10 moves after resigning.

What are your thoughts?

Renegade_Yoda

I like the current system but could also see that working as well. Or you could do 10 for first king captured 15 for second and 20 for 3rd. that would make for a new plan of waiting to take the first king (guarding it) until another king was taken or not risking a bishop on up to take the first king with reality of losing it. 

Either way I think the game plays out well. 

Eseles

I think that inactive/defenseless Kings should be worth less points than the active ones. They can give an undeserving advantage to the player who takes them, in any stage of the game (I've happened to witness such cases when only 2 players remain)

QuickAintFair

That would give players an incentive to resign before being checkmated, it would also be unfair to the player who's about to checkmate. Also generally the player in the best position to capture an inactive king is the player who was spearheading the attack. Finally I think players need to come to terms with the variance and chaotic nature of four players chess. Surely there are improvements to be made and the game will evolve but there will always be luck involved in this variant. 

Eseles
QuickAintFair wrote:

Finally I think players need to come to terms with the variance and chaotic nature of four players chess. Surely there are improvements to be made and the game will evolve but there will always be luck involved in this variant. 

Yes, but that goes either way of the argument presented here.

Also, why does the fact that someone can resign weigh heavier than the fact that it's much easier to take an inactive than an active King?

duongle0289

Thanks for your suggestions!

I have revised the original post to reflect your concerns.

Nabium

 I think one should get 20 points for a resigned zombie king, but perhaps the person who resigns should also lose 20 points to prevent too many tactical resignations.

 

sometimes yellow will launch an attack and capture a lot of blue's pieces, and then blue gets upset and resigns, and suddenly red is the closest to capture the resigned yellow king and gets the points. unfair, but a part of the game in my eyes, but still - a negative 20 points for anyone who resigns might keep things more interesting and fair.

Renegade_Yoda

not sure this helps here but here's hoping happy.png When I first started playing this game I did what probably a lot of you have and that is made what I thought were good moves based on 2 player chess. Now I do different moves, openings, middle and end game based on what I see works best to win at this 4 player game. To that end I have now started to look ahead to people's clock running out and or people that are getting crushed that might resign early. and try to place a bishop or queen, knight in a spot where I can zip in and capture the dead king. This has now become part of my game vs not even thinking about it prior to this game. The more we adapt expand our ways to win this game I believe the more successful we become. I look forward to those blogs with you higher ranking players pointing out more of these different tactic's that I have yet to even consider to help improve my game down the road. 

Cavatine

This is a great discussion and I am glad I read it, and this is one I won't ruin by attempting to contribute more to it happy.png

CaptainPike

I agree that capturing resigned Kings should not offer points; but I do believe that all remaining players should receive points upon someone's resignation. If I am playing 4 player chess and one of the 3 opponents resigns, then I outlasted that opponent; I don't think it is beyond consideration that I should receive something for outlasting him/her.

chineseroom

In my experience unfair situations arise mainly from very early resignations, as those benefit the player moving after the resigning player too much (close enough to get the dead king, first to move in the race to capture the dead king, one less "siding" player, meaning free side to push pawns and promote, less confrontation as the one placed between the two surviving players). 
Those are often result of a major, unforeseeable blunder, that cannot be predicted and usually is not forced. 
As the game goes on, i agree with Renegade_Yoda that it always should be considered as part of the strategy to have access to the king of players likely to resign/time out. 
This is sth i dont see as bad, as doing so is just another strategic element with consideration of risk/reward, that incentivizes offensive play instead of merely building defensive fortresses. 

And this can be fixed by having a matchmaking system that matches players equal of strength, which of course needs a large enough player pool or long wait time.  
(The better and even matched your opponents, the more predictable their actions become, the less likely they are to blunder early and resign quickly) . 
So i think and experienced that the random factor goes down the better and more even matched the 4 players are. 
CaptainPike: 
You receive more time to gain points by capturing pieces or mating your opponents. I think defensive, opportunistic play is already very rewarding (in fact i reached 1700 rating with it, then dropped after trying different approaches), not leaving a dead king, but receiving points for the remaining players makes defensive play even more rewarding. 

HardKnight

I propose that when the first and second king goes zombie, the remaining players immediately get awarded five points and the player to capture the zombie king gets ten points.  When only two players are left and a king goes zombie, the last standing player gets twenty points.

Renegade_Yoda

some version of that idea might work Hardknight.

Another idea taken from original post could be that anyone that resigns in first 2-5 of there moves? everyone left gets 5 points (or whatever). Not sure which problems are trying to be fixed so not sure what solution makes sense. In my suggestion I would be focused on just those that start the game and very early leave. does not address the other issues but from what I can tell there's pro's and con's to debate. 

AaronSmile

Perhaps we could just ban resigning.