Scandinavian is dumb, which is why I play this

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DasBurner

Whenever I see 1. e4 d5, I can't help but play the exciting, refreshing, Blackmar-Diemer gambit. Chances are they won't even know one of the lines, and if you can use a line that's so unorthodox they can't comprehend the oddity, you've won already. Hence the move qh5

Like just look how overpowered this thing would be in blitz

MegaPro-123

scandinavian sucks

 

AunTheKnight
MegaPro-123 wrote:

scandinavian sucks

 

No, it doesn’t.

Chushoudelu

it is good

KeSetoKaiba

I have mixed feelings about the Scandinavian Defense. It seems to violate opening principles to offer a pawn on move 1 and then bring out the Queen so early when the opponent can gain an immediate tempo on it (and 1. e4 d5?! 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nf3 has good merit for White as well). I used to place the Scandinavian Defense in the same category as unsound gambits. Even GM Bobby Fischer believed the Scandinavian Defense was refuted. In one game Fischer opened with 1. e4, story goes that Fischer literally laughed out loud when his opponent played 1...d5?! Fischer continued 2. exd5 and proceeded to crush his opponent.

However, many successful chess players and used the Scandinavian Defense in serious games to good success. Current chess world champion, GM Magnus Carlsen is one of them; his opinion must be valued if he sees enough in this opening to play it.

What convinced me to not look at this opening as narrow-mindedly was IM Levy Rozman (@gothamchess) and he recommends this opening for beginners playing the Black pieces (Rozman also used this openings with success himself on his road to his chess title although the Caro-Kann 1. e4 c6 is by far his preference). Rozman recommends this opening because many 1. e4 beginners won't know how to play correctly against the Scandi and also because many of the ideas are easy to learn. 

I'm no longer as critical of the Scandinavian Defense, but a part of me still considers 1. e4 d5?! dubious for Black. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was formally refuted in the future, but at least for now it seems playable. I place this opening in the same category as openings like the King's Gambit. I believe these openings have a ton of mainline theory and are strong openings that need to be taken seriously and studied, but perhaps not the most ambitious opening that could be played, nor the best opening that could be played. Being more prepared than the opponent is an asset, but objectively-speaking, openings like the Scandinavian Defense are solid enough to play, but perhaps not the best option available in my opinion.

Chushoudelu

actually, if white plays correct, he does get a better position, but it is difficult, as black will always have an active position sooner or later, and white isn't objectively winning in either case

Chushoudelu

dun dun dun

MegaPro-123

i have won almost every rapid game i've played against scandinavian defense

i've only lost one

lost because i hung my queen

DasBurner

is no one gonna talk about the potential of qh5 in that Blackmar-Diemer line tho? It looks so fun!!

DasBurner

@KeSetoKaiba, I used to play the Scandinavian as my main opening as black when I was around 1000, but ditched it because I always would end up getting overrun and my queen would be running away the whole game. That being said, I have never been able to play it for an advantage as white either. Why not avoid it altogether with 2. d4? thats my solution to the problem lol

KeSetoKaiba
MegaPro-123 wrote:

i have won almost every rapid game i've played against scandinavian defense

i've only lost one

lost because i hung my queen

Yes because many chess players encounter the Scandinavian less often and therefore tend to know how to handle it less, but this doesn't make this opening objectively strong - just that many players don't know how to play against it.

In favor of the Scandinavian Defense, there is a lesser known opening guideline that asserts 3 tempi are usually worth about 1 pawn. With 1. e4 d5 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nc3, White did not gain 3 tempi on the Queen yet, so maybe Black's opening isn't as bad as it looks. 

I still don't know why one would voluntarily expose their Queen to getting attacked while the opponent develops a piece (Nc3) though; maybe the Scandinavian isn't so terrible, but I don't think it is best.

Chushoudelu

actually, in most cases, black wants nc3, as to prevent future c4 pushes. Also, white needs to hurry up with his "advantage" or else after c6 e6 gets a knight on d5 and black has a good position

KeSetoKaiba
TonyL103 wrote:

actually, in most cases, black wants nc3, as to prevent future c4 pushes. Also, white needs to hurry up with his "advantage" or else after c6 e6 gets a knight on d5 and black has a good position

Is that the Rozman talking in you ? wink.png 

Chushoudelu

no lol i just study random openings

MegaPro-123
KeSetoKaiba wrote:
MegaPro-123 wrote:

i have won almost every rapid game i've played against scandinavian defense

i've only lost one

lost because i hung my queen

Yes because many chess players encounter the Scandinavian less often and therefore tend to know how to handle it less, but this doesn't make this opening objectively strong - just that many players don't know how to play against it.

i think that you may have misinterpreted my comment

or i may be misinterpreting yours

i'm not saying scandinavian is strong

i'm saying that it's bad, or at least not as good as some other openings, because i often win when i play against it

AunTheKnight
KeSetoKaiba wrote:

I have mixed feelings about the Scandinavian Defense. It seems to violate opening principles to offer a pawn on move 1 and then bring out the Queen so early when the opponent can gain an immediate tempo on it (and 1. e4 d5?! 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nf3 has good merit for White as well). I used to place the Scandinavian Defense in the same category as unsound gambits. Even GM Bobby Fischer believed the Scandinavian Defense was refuted. In one game Fischer opened with 1. e4, story goes that Fischer literally laughed out loud when his opponent played 1...d5?! Fischer continued 2. exd5 and proceeded to crush his opponent.

However, many successful chess players and used the Scandinavian Defense in serious games to good success. Current chess world champion, GM Magnus Carlsen is one of them; his opinion must be valued if he sees enough in this opening to play it.

What convinced me to not look at this opening as narrow-mindedly was IM Levy Rozman (@gothamchess) and he recommends this opening for beginners playing the Black pieces (Rozman also used this openings with success himself on his road to his chess title although the Caro-Kann 1. e4 c6 is by far his preference). Rozman recommends this opening because many 1. e4 beginners won't know how to play correctly against the Scandi and also because many of the ideas are easy to learn. 

I'm no longer as critical of the Scandinavian Defense, but a part of me still considers 1. e4 d5?! dubious for Black. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was formally refuted in the future, but at least for now it seems playable. I place this opening in the same category as openings like the King's Gambit. I believe these openings have a ton of mainline theory and are strong openings that need to be taken seriously and studied, but perhaps not the most ambitious opening that could be played, nor the best opening that could be played. Being more prepared than the opponent is an asset, but objectively-speaking, openings like the Scandinavian Defense are solid enough to play, but perhaps not the best option available in my opinion.

The Modern Variation doesn’t lose a tempo, I believe.

AunTheKnight
icyboyyy wrote:
AunTheKnight wrote:
KeSetoKaiba wrote:

I have mixed feelings about the Scandinavian Defense. It seems to violate opening principles to offer a pawn on move 1 and then bring out the Queen so early when the opponent can gain an immediate tempo on it (and 1. e4 d5?! 2. exd5 Qxd5 3. Nf3 has good merit for White as well). I used to place the Scandinavian Defense in the same category as unsound gambits. Even GM Bobby Fischer believed the Scandinavian Defense was refuted. In one game Fischer opened with 1. e4, story goes that Fischer literally laughed out loud when his opponent played 1...d5?! Fischer continued 2. exd5 and proceeded to crush his opponent.

However, many successful chess players and used the Scandinavian Defense in serious games to good success. Current chess world champion, GM Magnus Carlsen is one of them; his opinion must be valued if he sees enough in this opening to play it.

What convinced me to not look at this opening as narrow-mindedly was IM Levy Rozman (@gothamchess) and he recommends this opening for beginners playing the Black pieces (Rozman also used this openings with success himself on his road to his chess title although the Caro-Kann 1. e4 c6 is by far his preference). Rozman recommends this opening because many 1. e4 beginners won't know how to play correctly against the Scandi and also because many of the ideas are easy to learn. 

I'm no longer as critical of the Scandinavian Defense, but a part of me still considers 1. e4 d5?! dubious for Black. I wouldn't be at all surprised if it was formally refuted in the future, but at least for now it seems playable. I place this opening in the same category as openings like the King's Gambit. I believe these openings have a ton of mainline theory and are strong openings that need to be taken seriously and studied, but perhaps not the most ambitious opening that could be played, nor the best opening that could be played. Being more prepared than the opponent is an asset, but objectively-speaking, openings like the Scandinavian Defense are solid enough to play, but perhaps not the best option available in my opinion.

The Modern Variation doesn’t lose a tempo, I believe.

but the modern loses a pawn to gain the tempo if white tries to hold on to it

But black is ahead in development and has a perfectly playable position, though at top level it would be risky to play it.

Kadenstarr

Scandi is annoying, ikeep having my d4 pawn be really week and tend to lose it

although i just suck at chess so...

and yeh e4 d5 d4 is op