Thanks to Typewriter I'll be able to examine that more in-depth. I am very curious to see the relationship between the level of the players involved, the duration of their games and the final outcome, especially for the 3 first qualifiers.
That was not fair
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Indipendenza wrote "
ABSOLUTELY, 100% !!!
It's all about the time factor. It is pretty clear that high quality games are often much longer than low level ones. And you're stuck in long games precisely being with players against whom you have per construction much less chances to win! Double injustice. Whereas some other players may be simply lucky to have a strong opp in front and 2 noobs as sides and win in 10 min. and pass to the next ones.
I don't see where in stats and game archive I can see the duration of the games, but I suspect that this factor played a huge role in the outcome.
No no no my friend! 2200 games take way longer than high level games. All 2200s do is shuffle shuffle shuffle. Probably My average time for a 2400+ game was something like 25 mins, and I won nearly all of those games. (My 2800+ game took about 20 mins).
Indipendenza wrote:
Darksquareman wrote:
Exactly, what he is saying is ridiculous. It is sometimes difficult to beat players under 2000 if they are decent at 2pc. Sure, there is some luck in these arenas, but the game 4pc has a fair amount of luck itself. Almost all the games I won were 2400+ or more. You, and everyone else, fully deserve the qualification.
STOP, by no means I've ever said that ANY of the 4 qualified didn't deserve to be.
The point was totally elsewhere: it was about the statistical relevance of the outcome.
If people are not put in the same conditions, it is not fair.
If luck plays any role and skills are not enough, it is not fair.
If the leaders fail to qualify simply because of the format of the event, something is wrong.
You are saying it is not fair that those people qualified, those points certainly imply that.
Jun 5, 2022
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#25
Indipendenza wrote:
Who cares. A format where players like Rojitto and Empty and ChaCha fail to qualify can not be correct.
Empty isn't losing because of the arena format ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
As an example:
Jun 5, 2022
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#26
It's all about TIME. If you lose 15 min. waiting for a game (YES, I am not lying, happened to me today) and twice 30-35 min. stuck in long games with strong players where for any reason you fail to win more than once, you simply need to win at least 3 more games in just 10-15 min. which is strictly impossible whatever happens. The duration of the arenas is too short, and who wins becomes a lottery (YES of course nobody wins totally by chance, but it's easy to see that plenty excellent players fail to qualify...).
There was a qualifier where at one point rojitto had 3/4 and a performance rating of 2174! Do You think he is having a hard time of it? Maybe, because, like I said, those games can take a long time even if they are under 2000.
Jun 5, 2022
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#28
SO, the promised stats about Qualifier 4.
Rojitto is 3294, Jbolea 2767 and MoreMao 2802. Supposedly Rojitto should've won, normally.
But what happened?
The duration of the games was: 36, 20, 14, 33, 26 min. for More, who won 4 times (25,8 min. in average).
For Rojitto it was: 7, 29, 35, 49 min. (30 min. in average). Indirectly my fault that he didn't qualify as he lost the last one with me, stuck in a long game and unable to re-join another game.
For Jbolea it was: 17, 35, 44, 54 (!) min., so 37,5 min. in average. How could he reasonably win the Arena?! He just couldn't, stuck in long games. The fact he managed to finish 3rd is already admirable in se.
In addition: the ORDER of your victories influences (because of the bonus points). Sincerely it's silly, pointless. You may well have 1500 noobs with you 2 time in a row and have the bonus for free, it's not normal.
And: MoreMao won twice (of 4 times) with LL players involved; Rojitto and Jbolea only once each one (of 3 times). I.e. if we only look into victories with HL players, they were equal, all these 3 players.
GENERAL CONCLUSION: a) the time factor and b) the fact of admitting LL players (which in the Qualifier 4 was sincerely shocking as, contrary to the Qualifiers 1-3, it was done on the main server) have influenced greatly and prevented Rojitto (and Jbolea) from winning.
Jun 5, 2022
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#29
So I clasified merely by luck. There are 16 arenas. Happily those great players will have their chance to easily win against low rated players as well.
Jun 5, 2022
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#30
NO, MoreMao, NOT by luck. You deserved 100%. My point was slightly elsewhere: that skills were indeed necessary (and you had them), but were not enough. And that's not normal.
Jun 5, 2022
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#31
Qualifier 8, 1h22 over. ONLY TWO (2) GAMES played so far by me (of which I could only win one; yes against very strong players but who cares). And now I've been waiting for more than 5 min. in order to get a game.
I would be grateful to the Great and Respected Organisers if they could explain to me how on Earth I could still win this qualifier as only 37 min. remain and there is no games. When one is stuck in a 43 min. game (thank you Dark) just to gather 2 poor points, one can do NOTHING against players who could win fast (not necessarily by luck, but).
So I'm wasting my time, and I'm not the only one probably.
Jun 5, 2022
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#32
(Yes I know, I give the impression of being complaining all the time through. But look, in the qualifiers 1-4 the winners had 1500/1800 participants aside, whereas I've just had to fight against Dark, Rojitto, Radon, ChaCha, etc. and was stuck in very long games, so could only play 4 of which I only won one. I'm happy these excellent players will qualify, but still I do not feel we were put in equal conditions if we consider the Qualifier 4 where there was no more excuse of the test server...).
Looks like your favorites qualified. Why do you complain before its even over?
Jun 6, 2022
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#34
I explained above. Because of the distorsions and frustrations associated.
To address that in 2023, I've just posted https://www.chess.com/clubs/forum/view/a-proposal-for-2023-championship
Who cares. A format where players like Rojitto and Empty and ChaCha fail to qualify can not be correct.