Well what is new in this situation, merely that the USA have failed to defend the actions of Israeli colonists? The question posed about taking land in "conflict" is interesting, where I wonder is the conflict, is it the people of Gaza/ West Bank refusing to be dispossessed?
The Building Of Settlements By Israel In The Occupied Territories
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Dec 28, 2016
0
#3
I believe that most of the settlements being built are on land seized during the 'six day war' of 1967? But international law prohibits building on occupied land, to the best of my knowledge.
Previously, there was an understanding between the US & Israeli governments that a resolution to the Palestinian issue needed to be found but that the UN Security Council was not the place to do it. For the first time, a US administration has gone back on this understanding.
I notice though that it's been announced today that permission for building in part of occupied Jerusalem has been withheld, unexpectedly. So perhaps this decision by the US is having an effect already?
what right do we have to side with anyone on contested land? I do not like that "immoral" comment one bit.
Dec 29, 2016
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#5
Now that's an interesting comment Kittyluv, it presumes that there are areas of uncontested land. If this is so then how did they become uncontested and what legitimises the non-contest? I think its time to consider Marx.
Dec 29, 2016
0
#6
That's to miss the point - I believe that the USA has long objected to the building of settlements because it hinders any chance of a peace deal between Israel & the Palestinians but it hasn't allowed a resolution to be passed in the Security Council because it wasn't the appropriate forum.
This is all part of the diplomatic tight-rope walking that's achieved very little over the decades, apart from a lot more settlements on occupied land.
But Netanyahu's comment about the immorality of it is strange, even hypocritical?
stephen_33 wrote:
But Netanyahu's comment about the immorality of it is strange, even hypocritical?
absolutely
Despite the US stance on recent events, it does not change the fact that the Palestinian people continue to live under a brutal Israeli occupation. Israel continues to violate international laws and commit severe human rights violations on the population it occupies.
The America/Israeli alliance is built on myths. Israel and Congress proclaim that the US citizens as well as UK brits have the same values. I think not. The democracy that Israel touts is restricted to Israeli Jews.
Kerry had the courage to rightly point out these illegal settlers are a major focal issue of creating tension in the middle east.
I only wonder why it took so long.
Hello everyone, just remember that in the six day war, every country that surrounded Israel attacked it. shockingly the little state of Israel survived, once again, and by the end of the war it had conquered part of west Jordan (west bank), the Sinai Peninsula and Gaza Strip (part of Egypt) and the Golan Heights, Siria. after the war Israel returned the "occupied" territories (which I like to call conquered territories) in exchange for peace. Egypt and Jordan accepted, however they told Israel to keep the West Bank and Gaza since they didnt want to deal with the Palestinians. Now the Palestinians argue that that land is theirs when actually it was conquered in that war and the world has failed to acknoledge it because they want the Palestinians to have their state. therefore, Israel seeing that, they offer land in exchange of peace. Israel took every single jewish person from Gaza Strip and left every business that those people had to the Palestinians for them to manage. Instead of them trying to become a productive state, they decided to destroy businesses, sinagogue and everything that the jew had left FOR THEM, and right after that, they sent missiles and suicide bombers to Israel cities. which is when Israel decided to build walls to keep them there without having to put in danger its citizens.
Sorry if my gramar is not so well, English is my second language.
Feb 21, 2017
0
#10
Not only is your English poor but your understanding of the events leading up to the 6 days war is also poor. You must acknowledge that human history is littered with conquests and the appalling aftermath of these. Israel is no different, it only came about following unprovoked aggression against the Palestinian people while the world and in particular Britain turned a nelsonian eye .
I believe it wasnt unprovoked aggression, but rather the contrary. Palestinians refusing to acknoledge the state of israel as a jewish state and calling for its destruction by sending suicide bombers and declaring war doesn't seem to me as unprovoked -- but that's only my opinion.
*Britain turned a blind eye because they were tired of dealing with those people, which is why they decided to divide the territory for the 2, Israel and Palestine -- one side accepted the terms, the other didnt.
Feb 22, 2017
0
#12
All very simplistic, the reality is that Israel ignored the international consensus and sought to establish a state irrespective of the people who had resided there for millennia. The choice for the Palestinian people was "hobsons choice". I respectfully suggest that you read more widely about the development of modern Israel.
Yes, I agree Palestinians didn't have much choice but to accept the terms. however, before that they didn't have a state either. They were ruled by the UK, so when the consensus came, it was time for them to embrace change and grow as a state, unfortunately they didn't. they educated their children by telling them how jews and israel are the devil and how they should be removed from earth - they made it their sole purpose.
*not because a piece of land now has a label doesn't mean you cant live in it. Israel never kicked them out.
Sorry but its very hard for me to applaud and support a group of people that have made their mission to kill others, regardless of the circumstance.
Feb 22, 2017
0
#14
Glad to see your accepting that the Palestinian people had no choice in the matter, however being an oppressed people (irrespective of who oppresses you) is no reason to meekly accept what is offered. The UK itself is a collection of sequestered lands and not, therefore, a reliable arbiter in international affairs. They caused through their imperialism countless conflicts in almost every continent.
Same as Israel didn't have a choice in the matter - they got what was put on the table and dealt with it.
If we are going to talk about imperialism being the problem, then we can go back on history where the jews were the first colonialists of Judea (hence the word Judahites (jew)) and then were exhiled by the Balbilons...
It has been 70+ years since the creation of the state of Israel and still Palestinians continue to educate for destruction. they need to change that way of thinking. they would had reached a two state solution long ago if they would've stopped educating for terrorism.
I would like to see everyone condemning Paletinian terrorism as strongly as they condemn Israeli Settlements.
Feb 23, 2017
0
#16
It appears to me that we are never going to agree; particularly as you are now relying on a dubious view of the world, even if I were to accept the "old testament" version of the arrival of the Jews in Palestine the colony was established by the complete ethnic cleansing of the peoples who lived and toiled in the place prior to the arrival the Jews. I have no more to say on this matter. Good luck.
I would recommend you to travel to Israel and tour the historic sites, that might clear quite a bit. I was hoping you agreed with me on condemning Palestinian actions... but anyways, it was nice discussing the subject with you. have a nice day.
Point #1: kingbishop123, you appear to be engaging in very sweeping (and thus false) attributions to a whole nation of people (Palestinians) by claiming that this entire people has made it their sole purpose to destroy Israel. I think we can ALL agree that is an exaggeration. Hell, Palestinians have married Israelis, so how does that fit into your world view?
I am not saying that there were not many Israel-hating Palestinians, or that many of them did not teach hate to their children, but your kind of statements that paint every person of a certain group with the same brush is the very definition of bigotry.
Moreover, we have an excellent example of a similar phenomenon in America, when the black slaves were freed and mostly stayed living in the South among people who had fought to retain slavery. Many of those Southerners wanted all blacks dead, gone or re-enslaved, and hated living among free blacks. But not all. Many of those Southerners taught hate to their children. But not all. And while some of that hate still exists, it has been steadily diminishing every passing generation till now, just six generations later, that sort of attitude is the remote fringe, even in the deep South. Membership in the Ku Klux Klan is less than 1% what it was a century ago (down from over 1 million to under 10,000).
No doubt, Palestinians felt enmity towards Israelis when Israel was created akin to what Confederate slave-owners felt towards freed slaves after the Civil War. And no doubt there was and still is hate. But over time, sanity and common sense prevail. We are all people, and when push comes to shove, we learn our differences are all superficial compared to core values such as love for our children, hope for a better future, desire for honor and self-respect that comes from living with integrity. The average person is a friggin' hero, desiring to do good and make the world a better place. Alas, that average person is, in pretty much every case, rendered flawed in various ways to to whatever individual dysfunctions plague us and make us flawed and diminished, so that we each have unique baggage with which we struggle throughout life. While our baggage is unique, even between siblings, the fact we all have it is itself another commonality among us.
So, no, the Palestinians are not a race of insane monsters hell-bent on genocide, nor are the Israelis a race of elitist, self-centered pricks hell-bent on world domination. The more they live among one another in peace, the more they will be forced to replace their stereotypical lies with the truth staring them in the face, that discounting the extremist fringe elements, they are not so different.
krm27 wrote:
Point #1: kingbishop123, you appear to be engaging in very sweeping (and thus false) attributions to a whole nation of people (Palestinians) by claiming that this entire people has made it their sole purpose to destroy Israel. I think we can ALL agree that is an exaggeration. Hell, Palestinians have married Israelis, so how does that fit into your world view?
I am not saying that there were not many Israel-hating Palestinians, or that many of them did not teach hate to their children, but your kind of statements that paint every person of a certain group with the same brush is the very definition of bigotry.
Moreover, we have an excellent example of a similar phenomenon in America, when the black slaves were freed and mostly stayed living in the South among people who had fought to retain slavery. Many of those Southerners wanted all blacks dead, gone or re-enslaved, and hated living among free blacks. But not all. Many of those Southerners taught hate to their children. But not all. And while some of that hate still exists, it has been steadily diminishing every passing generation till now, just six generations later, that sort of attitude is the remote fringe, even in the deep South. Membership in the Ku Klux Klan is less than 1% what it was a century ago (down from over 1 million to under 10,000).
No doubt, Palestinians felt enmity towards Israelis when Israel was created akin to what Confederate slave-owners felt towards freed slaves after the Civil War. And no doubt there was and still is hate. But over time, sanity and common sense prevail. We are all people, and when push comes to shove, we learn our differences are all superficial compared to core values such as love for our children, hope for a better future, desire for honor and self-respect that comes from living with integrity. The average person is a friggin' hero, desiring to do good and make the world a better place. Alas, that average person is, in pretty much every case, rendered flawed in various ways to to whatever individual dysfunctions plague us and make us flawed and diminished, so that we each have unique baggage with which we struggle throughout life. While our baggage is unique, even between siblings, the fact we all have it is itself another commonality among us.
So, no, the Palestinians are not a race of insane monsters hell-bent on genocide, nor are the Israelis a race of elitist, self-centered pricks hell-bent on world domination. The more they live among one another in peace, the more they will be forced to replace their stereotypical lies with the truth staring them in the face, that discounting the extremist fringe elements, they are not so different.
Wow I love this, well said.
Great comment krm27! I dont want to be misrepresented and come accross as a bigot. I just want to clarify that I generalize the "Palestinians" to what their government entails: A government whose purpose IS to destroy Israel, to use terror as a weapon, to use children as shields and that teaches to hate another human being because of their belief (do you think that israeli/palestinian married couple you're talking about live in Palestine?).
I agree, not all Palestinians are evil, of course, and that being said, many would like their state and peace, but their government prevents that from happening. The plan has been put on the table many times and sadly rejected.
I hope eventually what you’re saying becomes true and people stop hating… it would be nice to have peace in the Middle East!
Friday, 23/Dec/2016: "The United Nations Security Council on Friday passed a resolution condemning Israel's settlements in the West Bank and East Jerusalem. The United States abstained on the resolution, allowing it to pass, rather than vetoing it -- as it usually does with resolutions it sees as overly critical of Israel.
Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu summoned the US ambassador and launched a scathing attack Sunday on the Obama administration...."
see the following for the full article:-
http://edition.cnn.com/2016/12/26/politics/understanding-unsc-resolution/
Interestingly, the Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu described the action of the US in this as 'immoral', even though they merely abstained in the vote. What do people think of the morality of any state settling its own citizens on land taken in conflict?
Such activity has been proscribed by international convention & law for some time but in the past, the USA consistently vetoed any attempt to condemn Israel within the UNSC. What hope do dispossessed Palestinians have in ever achieving justice in this matter?