I speak for the new admin team when I say we have no intention of reopening this issue. What was done four/five years ago is now part of WL history and is not going to be revisited.
For the time being República Argentina is considered to be the official national team representing Argentina but should it drop out of WL, it will then be possible to consider an application from Team Argentina.
All teams must meet our minimum requirments.
Thank you for your prompt response.
I understand that for a newly-formed administrative team, reopening an issue from several years ago may seem unnecessary. However, I would like to offer a perspective that, while perhaps not unanimous, resonates with a significant portion of the community involved in this matter.
While I recognize that this position likely represents the majority, it is possible that not all members of the current WL administration are entirely new. Some longstanding members might provide valuable insights into the historical context of this matter. Additionally, a newly appointed Argentinean member might share my perspective.
The "Team Argentina" (TA) club felt deeply wronged by past decisions, leading to their withdrawal from WL and leaving many players without access to high-level competition. On the other hand, some members of TA regrouped to form "República Argentina" (RA) and accepted the challenge to prove their worth, starting in Division C and already achieving one promotion. It is highly likely they will soon secure a spot in Division A. This showcases a commendable sporting effort.
The decision to allow RA to begin in Division C instead of Division D or E was both pragmatic and correct. RA not only met the standards of Division C but also demonstrated its capability to progress and compete at the highest level. This sets a precedent that WL can make flexible decisions to foster competitive development within the league.
Division A teams are essentially competing for second place, as the true champion is absent. Including a unified Argentine team (players from TA and RA) could elevate the league even further.
More than simply debating with the administration, my intention is to ensure that this position and the reasons behind TA’s withdrawal—as well as the recent renewed request for recognition—are disseminated across the entire WL membership. My aim is not to argue but to foster a broader understanding among all participants.
I hope these reflections are seen as a constructive contribution to WL’s continued development, and I remain available to further discuss or clarify any aspects of this matter.
Division A teams are essentially competing for second place, as the true champion is absent. Including a unified Argentine team (players from TA and RA) could elevate the league even further.
I'm not sure if this is a translation issue, but this seems like a very arrogant claim to make. Team Argentina has not had a match over 300 boards since 2021. If Team Argentina's absence from the World League is the reason their participation is lower, then perhaps Team Argentina is not really in the position to make demands of the World League.
If you want to get other nations on your side, you cannot only make demands for Team Argentina. You have to be gracious to its current membership as well.
It’s true that TA hasn’t had a match with more than 300 boards since 2021, and I understand how my tone might have come across as arrogant—if so, I apologize. My intention was to emphasize that TA’s absence from the WL has had a significant impact on our community.
That said, I believe it would be fairer to evaluate the combined potential of TA and RA. Competing in Division A, both teams would undoubtedly add to the league’s strength and numbers.
As for supporting other nations, I fully agree: if there were a case of injustice or a valid claim from another team, I would gladly support it. The goal is to foster a competitive and fair environment for all participants.
"That said, I believe it would be fairer to evaluate the combined potential of TA and RA. Competing in Division A, both teams would undoubtedly add to the league’s strength and numbers."
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This is an easy problem to solve, Team Argentina players can join the Republica Argentina club.
This is an easy problem to solve, Team Argentina players can join the Republica Argentina club.
No, it's not a solution. RA was in Div. C now they got to be in Div. B
TA played in Div. A
Argentina deserves to be in Div. A
"That said, I believe it would be fairer to evaluate the combined potential of TA and RA. Competing in Division A, both teams would undoubtedly add to the league’s strength and numbers."
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This is an easy problem to solve, Team Argentina players can join the Republica Argentina club.
Yeah but there's also his claim about the 2018 and 2019 WL titles
What would you do - remove another team which earned its place in Division A, so TA can take its place? I agree, if TA members join RA, then the latter team will soon be in Division A, if they are strong enough.
Division A teams are essentially competing for second place, as the true champion is absent. Including a unified Argentine team (players from TA and RA) could elevate the league even further.
I'm not sure if this is a translation issue, but this seems like a very arrogant claim to make. Team Argentina has not had a match over 300 boards since 2021. If Team Argentina's absence from the World League is the reason their participation is lower, then perhaps Team Argentina is not really in the position to make demands of the World League.
If you want to get other nations on your side, you cannot only make demands for Team Argentina. You have to be gracious to its current membership as well.
I remember 2018/2019 Argentina, they were the strongest on chess.com and earned the WL titles. The league’s decision to remove the titles was unfair at the time, and that is why Argentina left. It seems right that the original team be reinstated as the original group leaving and the new group joining was originally a fault of WL. If titles aren’t to be returned (understandable that new administrators don’t want to open old issues), it seems fair that at a minimum their team be reinstated as Argentina’s representative of chess.com.
And for those who aren’t familiar with TA’s history, they were clearly the strongest chess.com team until their WL participation ceased after the unfair refusal to give them the WL champions title. Thus, my opinion is that they should be reinstated.
While currently they are not the strongest team and thus other teams do compete for first, in the past it was as they describe (other teams could only hope for second).
Division A teams are essentially competing for second place, as the true champion is absent. Including a unified Argentine team (players from TA and RA) could elevate the league even further.
I'm not sure if this is a translation issue, but this seems like a very arrogant claim to make. Team Argentina has not had a match over 300 boards since 2021. If Team Argentina's absence from the World League is the reason their participation is lower, then perhaps Team Argentina is not really in the position to make demands of the World League.
If you want to get other nations on your side, you cannot only make demands for Team Argentina. You have to be gracious to its current membership as well.
I remember 2018/2019 Argentina, they were the strongest on chess.com and earned the WL titles. The league’s decision to remove the titles was unfair at the time, and that is why Argentina left. It seems right that the original team be reinstated as the original group leaving and the new group joining was originally a fault of WL. If titles aren’t to be returned (understandable that new administrators don’t want to open old issues), it seems fair that at a minimum their team be reinstated as Argentina’s representative of chess.com.
And for those who aren’t familiar with TA’s history, they were clearly the strongest chess.com team until their WL participation ceased after the unfair refusal to give them the WL champions title. Thus, my opinion is that they should be reinstated.
While currently they are not the strongest team and thus other teams do compete for first, in the past it was as they describe (other teams could only hope for second).
The new team that represents Argentina (Republica Argentina) has absolutely nothing to do with either the old or the new administration of the league. Please do not talk about what is unknown. 2nd point we talk about a hypothetical union of both teams... not the cancellation of 1. And if that is the case I have to give my opinion against it. The claim is totally legitimate in its part of recognition of the legally obtained leagues. Any issue unrelated to that... should be raised by both Argentine teams. Since the team that represents today "does not underrepresent"... is Republica Argentina.
This discussion isn't going to go anywhere because the position of the WL admin team is as I describe it in my post above (post #2) and isn't going to change.
This is an easy problem to solve, Team Argentina players can join the Republica Argentina club.
No, it's not a solution. RA was in Div. C now they got to be in Div. B
TA played in Div. A
Argentina deserves to be in Div. A
No, you gave up your right to represent Argentina when you decided to boycott the league.
Division A teams are essentially competing for second place, as the true champion is absent. Including a unified Argentine team (players from TA and RA) could elevate the league even further.
I'm not sure if this is a translation issue, but this seems like a very arrogant claim to make. Team Argentina has not had a match over 300 boards since 2021. If Team Argentina's absence from the World League is the reason their participation is lower, then perhaps Team Argentina is not really in the position to make demands of the World League.
If you want to get other nations on your side, you cannot only make demands for Team Argentina. You have to be gracious to its current membership as well.
I remember 2018/2019 Argentina, they were the strongest on chess.com and earned the WL titles. The league’s decision to remove the titles was unfair at the time, and that is why Argentina left. It seems right that the original team be reinstated as the original group leaving and the new group joining was originally a fault of WL. If titles aren’t to be returned (understandable that new administrators don’t want to open old issues), it seems fair that at a minimum their team be reinstated as Argentina’s representative of chess.com.
And for those who aren’t familiar with TA’s history, they were clearly the strongest chess.com team until their WL participation ceased after the unfair refusal to give them the WL champions title. Thus, my opinion is that they should be reinstated.
While currently they are not the strongest team and thus other teams do compete for first, in the past it was as they describe (other teams could only hope for second).
I have been playing in the WL since 2013 and have been in charge of Team Brazil's administration since 2016, so I know the story.
In fact, Argentina used to compete in the Pan-American League with the A team in the 1st division and the B team in the 2nd division of our continent.
To this day, Argentina is extremely strong and competitive in any modality, I can say this with authority, as I also play in the live versions of the competitions, such as LCWL and LCPAL.
Regarding the review of the titles, the issue has already expired, it is no longer possible to reverse it, as the Argentines' biggest claim is that the ilmago was a dictator. I know he was difficult to deal with, but if what was discussed in the board of directors was completely unfair, I believe that the other board members would have rebelled against the decision or abandoned the board of directors accusing the ilmago, but that did not happen.
I remember 2018/2019 Argentina, they were the strongest on chess.com and earned the WL titles. The league’s decision to remove the titles was unfair at the time, and that is why Argentina left. It seems right that the original team be reinstated as the original group leaving and the new group joining was originally a fault of WL. If titles aren’t to be returned (understandable that new administrators don’t want to open old issues), it seems fair that at a minimum their team be reinstated as Argentina’s representative of chess.com.
Thank you @kineticpower for acknowledging what truly happened in 2018 and 2019.
Regarding the form of reparation, it might not be feasible to alter the official record or standings as they currently appear. In my opinion, the official champions should remain listed, but at the very least, an asterisk should be added to indicate that Argentina won its matches and was later stripped of the title by the decision of the authorities at the time.
As for replacing RA with TA, that was not the intention of my proposal.
RA earned its place in Division B and will do so in Division A as well. Many players from RA also play for TA, and vice versa. This is an unfortunate situation caused by WL’s administration. Ideally, we should all play together.
No, you gave up your right to represent Argentina when you decided to boycott the league.
In my opinion, a boycott is not simply withdrawing from the league, but actively campaigning against it with the intent to harm it. That is not what happened.
On the contrary, Argentina withdrew as a victim of what it considered to be an arbitrary decision. When the person responsible for this injustice was no longer in charge, Argentina requested a correction.
To understand your position: Are you saying that Argentina infiltrated players into WL? Are you claiming that TA prevented lower-ranked players from participating and excluded them against their will? Is this what you are asserting with historical knowledge?
Look, even if you can demonstrate that TA were unfairly treated several years ago (and no evidence of that has been presented), you can't now try to re-write history. If we applied that principle to the many instances of historical sporting injustice that have occurred, we would have chaos.
TA withdrew from the league of their own volition. Since then RA has come to represent the Argentina and they seem to be making progress up the divisions. Just accept reality. You can't turn back the clock!
No, you gave up your right to represent Argentina when you decided to boycott the league.
In my opinion, a boycott is not simply withdrawing from the league, but actively campaigning against it with the intent to harm it. That is not what happened.
On the contrary, Argentina withdrew as a victim of what it considered to be an arbitrary decision. When the person responsible for this injustice was no longer in charge, Argentina requested a correction.
To understand your position: Are you saying that Argentina infiltrated players into WL? Are you claiming that TA prevented lower-ranked players from participating and excluded them against their will? Is this what you are asserting with historical knowledge?
I didn't say anything like that, I just said that if the decision was as unfair as they say, other directors would have resigned and accused Ilmago of persecuting the Argentine team, just as other teams could have abandoned the WL in support of you, but that didn't happen, so it's already a point to think about.
It is often possible to violate a rule without intending to harm anyone or take advantage of the situation, like a Formula 1 driver who loses control and cuts a chicane, gaining a certain amount of time or even position over another driver, even if it is accidental and not intentional, the driver is forced to give up the position and/or is punished by the race directors.
I understand the situation in Argentina when they created the B team, because in Brazil we also suffer from trolls, adventurers and cheaters. I believe I have already mentioned this on other occasions, as was pointed out at the time. The problem is that somehow they ended up restricting the entry of low-rated players and then kept these players on the B team for longer than they should have. If after a period of 3 months the player did not prove that he could be promoted to the A team, that player should be expelled from the B team or at most give him another 3 months to regularize his situation. I believe that if they did this, perhaps there would be no room for dispute. Another point would be to balance the entry by also restricting the access of players with higher ratings or removing inactive players who were on the A team.
In any case, the so-called B teams became a controversial point and their implementation was not accepted.
As many of you may recall, Team Argentina achieved victory in the WL during 2018 and 2019. Unfortunately, these titles were later stripped from us without clear justification, despite having presented extensive documentation supporting the legitimacy of our matches. Regrettably, our appeals and evidence were ignored, and the official results simply stated that "Team Argentina was playing its own League."
This decision, which we perceived as arbitrary and unjust, led us to leave the League. However, with almost five years having passed, we now turn to the member teams and the new administrators of the WL with a respectful request:
Recognition of our titles from 2018 and 2019, acknowledging the efforts and achievements of our team.
Reintegration of Team Argentina into the WL, specifically in Category A, where we believe we rightfully belong.
We trust that these restorative actions will not only honor our team’s contributions but also uphold the values of fairness and integrity that the WL represents.
Since our departure, some members of Team Argentina established an alternative team, República Argentina, to continue participating in the WL. While this team has achieved success—including progression from Division C to Division B and potential advancement to Division A in the coming years—it is essential to clarify that República Argentina is a derivative of Team Argentina. Many of its members remain active in Team Argentina, which continues to represent the vibrant spirit and talent of Argentine amateur chess on chess.com, with over 800 members—significantly more than the 330 members of the alternative team.
Despite these developments, Argentina, in general, remains underrepresented in the WL due to the injustices of 2018. We firmly believe that Argentina deserves rightful placement in Division A for the upcoming season, represented by a unified team that brings together players from both Team Argentina and Republica Argentina.
We urge you to correct this longstanding injustice. Doing so will not only restore equity but also strengthen the competitive spirit and inclusiveness of the League.
Please note: I use "we" and "our" in some parts of this message, as I have incorporated paragraphs from communications written by the administrators of Team Argentina. However, this petition reflects my personal request to the members and authorities of the World League.