Tree Masks and Opening Training

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Helipacter

Hi everyone,

Quick question, does anyone know how to get the best out of SCID using tree masks for training? I'm trying to get a couple of new opening repetiores underway, but I can't get CPT to work on Linux so I thought I'd try and use SCID, but the learning curve is tough.

If there are any articles or videos that people can recommend, I'll be more than grateful to have them.

Cheers!

CRShelton

I use Scid Vs. Mac, so there may be some differences.  The tree masks are useful for when you are analysing and examining games.  You can make a comment and/or NAG code to a specific position and SCID will keep track of it across games. Scid will be able to deliver that comment in any game with that position. You can automatically have a single game or batch of games annotated with your comments at each position. It is especially powerful because the comments are linked to the specific positions, so transpositions and alternate move orders will be handled without fuss.

Tree masks are good for study, but not much use for practice.  For that feature in Scid Vs. Mac you can open the tree window for any database and turn on training mode. In training mode, you make your moves and the computer will choose only from moves that are represented in the database.  If you make a move that represents a novelty among your collection, the computer will stop moving.  So you can create database of games that represent your repetiore and then train against them.

In Scid Vs. Mac there is also the option when playing games against an engine, to specify the opening that you want the engine to play. It's probably the simplest option but gives you the least control.  You can use the book tuning feature to adjust the frequency of the lines played by your engine.

Helipacter

Thanks for the response, and sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I think I'll choose the last option once I've got the main lines downpat; it seems like a good way of seeing common traits from an opening.

In order to learn the main lines, I think I'm just going to go old school and create a new database and physically input the details myself. I realise I can just use the opening books and my database to play through the openings in GM games, but I struggle to learn the lines this way. I need to do, if that makes sense? I can go through the above in conjunction with van der Sterren's Fundamental Chess Openings, and make notations as I go.

I also found the Kebu Opening Memorizer, which I've not investigated, but as a pgn template could work for learning new openings. (Though if it's a lemon, or I could knock up something better myself.)

Anyway, if anyone else out there has any great ways of learning openings dynamically with SCID, let me know!

CRShelton

If you are going to go to the effort (I think it's worth it) of entering the lines manually, with notation, just add that whole thing to the mask when you are done (There's a menu option "save game to mask", I think). 

Now whenever you play that opening again, those same comments can be added to the game automatically.  That's the idea behind masks.  As you study lines and comment/notate them, keep adding them to the mask. Eventually you will have a "mask" that covers your entire repertoire, but you don't have to do it all at once.

Helipacter

Hi, so I just used the tree mask option with my regular database (I realise that the mask is not limited to one database) and I'm loving it. I might still go through creating my own, separate, DB but at the moment I think that the mask is enough.

Another question I have is, does anyone know how to add a line that doesn't exist in your DB (and therefore doesn't appear in the tree window) into a mask? Also, can you use the "Training" option with your mask only, or is it with the entire DB?

Thanks!

MrWayne

Scid 4.2.2

Took some fumbeling around BUT I finally got the mask thing where I understand how.     Next step to learn how to automaticaly add my notes to the games in the DB as refferenced by CR Shelton

MrWayne

    4 months ago · Quote · #2

CRShelton

I use Scid Vs. Mac, so there may be some differences.  The tree masks are useful for when you are analysing and examining games.  You can make a comment and/or NAG code to a specific position and SCID will keep track of it across games. Scid will be able to deliver that comment in any game with that position. <-----  Got this in the tree window

 

You can automatically have a single game or batch of games annotated with your comments at each position. <------  How do I do this ??????  Wayne

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

SCID 4.2.2  Mask

Click Mask pulls up a menu including the following items.

Fill with Game

Fill with Base

Any words of wisdom as to what this does????

Fill with Base

 

 

 

MrWayne

Had some time to fumble around some more with this.  For those with no ECO access this allows you to scroll through any opening of interest.  Tedious but works.

My expierence with 4.2.2 the ECO is not complete lots of sub lines missing

Fill with game takes what ever info you have entered into a game and loads it into the mask you are working with.   Viewing the mask info is ok for small notes.  Large comments are tedious with this format.  I find it better to manually add (tedious) notes to the mask.  Personally I have created a repertoire for every opening I am interested in and manually add comments to it.  The masks I am tryingfor brief notes as guidance 

Fill with base takes the notes from what ever database and adds it to the mask move for move game for game.  If your data base is large it's going to be a long wait.

I haven't determined how to automatically add the mask notes to a game???

MrWayne

8 months ago · Quote · #5

Helipacter

Another question I have is, does anyone know how to add a line that doesn't exist in your DB (and therefore doesn't appear in the tree window) into a mask? Also, can you use the "Training" option with your mask only, or is it with the entire DB?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Although this post is rather old a FYI on this question.   If you open a DB & use it to populate your Tree Mask and run into the above question there are several ways to work around this.

Usually when entering data into a tree mask you are working through a specific game line.  When you reach the split save the game and load it into a temporary database.  In the temp DB you can use TOGA (up to 10 lines) to generate altenative move orders, or play out what ever you want for move orders. Save the alternative moves in the temp DB.  Now load your original DB and use the temp as the refference for the tree.    Save your notes & NAG code for the alternative lines as with any other tree mask  enteries or just save the whole game line.     Once you get the alternative info loaded into the tree mask it will show up at the bottom of the tree screen. 

 

Hope this helps

 

 

MrWayne

8 months ago · Quote · #5

Helipacter

Another question I have is, does anyone know how to add a line that doesn't exist in your DB (and therefore doesn't appear in the tree window) into a mask? Also, can you use the "Training" option with your mask only, or is it with the entire DB?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

How about another way to do this.   As you are loading the moves of a game into the tree mask and run into the above situation.   Save your tree mask and close the tree window.

Save the game in question to preserve current data.  Start working through the alternative lines of what ever you are interested in.  BUT don't do it as a variation, rather main line.  Pesonally I prefer to save the game again BUT your choice. Reload the tree window & the tree mask using the database your game is in as the tree refernce.  Once you get the the move before the change you new alternative move will appear.  Work though your moves into the tree mask as you desire.  Don't forget to save.

You will need to do the above for each variation in question. 

The alternative moves & comments will show up below the regular tree information.  After you are done go back to the original game line and change it to the main line.

From past expierence I backup my DB's regularly often several times a day.  It's bad enough to lose several hours work.  Worse if it is several days worth 

 

 

Mouselip

I am looking for more information on using the tree mask functionality, too. Thanks for posting what you have discovered, @MrWayne .