Updates to 4 Player Chess

4 Player Chess has moved to chess.com/variants, which is in fact nothing other than "4PC 2.0", eg a big update to 4 player chess.

We have made some major changes to 4 player chess:

1. The starting position has changed to the so called "Omatamix setup":

The reason for this change is that the "oma" setup is much more balanced. According to the strongest 4PC engine, oma is around +1 for Red&Yellow, compared to +4 for the current setup. (https://www.chess.com/clubs/forum/view/balance-3?page=2#comment-60024648)
This change is for both Teams and FFA.

This change was discussed here: https://www.chess.com/clubs/forum/view/balance-3

2. High level FFA is Solo. There is no longer a separate mode or rating for Solo.

The new system "morphs" from the old FFA system to the Solo system, as the average rating increases. This means that when the average rating is closer to 1500, players finishing in 2nd place will typically gain rating, and in higher-rated games, the distinction between 2nd, 3rd, and 4th will be less consequential. The graph below shows how this will look:

see also https://www.chess.com/clubs/forum/view/ffa-solo-simplify-the-game

This change can be discussed here: https://www.chess.com/clubs/forum/view/sfa-solo-for-all

3. The default time control is 1|7 (1 minute with 7 seconds increment) for FFA and 2|10 for Teams.
We believe delay is not a suitable time control, especially for high level FFA (Solo) which involves a lot of shuffling late in the game, until some highly critical moment when much time to think is appropriate. The classic example being Solo championships where top players shuffled forever only to blunder in the critical moment when 15 seconds were not enough. It's also not fun to watch players wait 15 seconds only to play a "nothing move" (shuffling).
Increment rewards fast play, allows saving up time for critical moments.
Further, overall games are too slow for most, many players avoid FFA because games just take too long. We think 1|7 will up the pace a little bit, while still leaving plenty of time to think. And also make games more fun to watch.
1|7 is the new default setting, but of course you can still choose any time control, including the good old 1|15Delay.

Rating Types:
In variants, admins can define rating types. This means they can create separate ratings for variants (perhaps a War for Throne-rating), or ratings for several different games (perhaps a 4PC giveaway (formerly known as antichess) rating, or perhaps a WOF rating.
More info will follow.
The downside of this is that it's not compatible with the current "1 rating for all variants" on 4PC, and it means you will lose all variant ratings, and also hyper ratings, as there is no way to transfer them. (There is no way to tell if a current 4PC variant or hyper rating was obtained by playing War for Throne, King Safety, or both, or some other variants.)
=> Everybody will start at 1500 after the move to /variants

Other rule changes:

Double-checks are always +1, triple checks: +5.

Further a boatload of new features:

New rule variants:
◦ Atomic (Pieces disappear when they capture and cause an explosion that removes pieces, except pawns. see https://www.chess.com/terms/atomic-chess)

◦ Fog of War (You only see the squares that you can move to. https://www.chess.com/terms/fog-of-war-chess). Teams: you can see the moves for your teammate too.

◦ Self-partner (play both sides of the Team. Teams only)

◦ Any Capture (Capture Anything. https://www.chess.com/terms/capture-anything-chess)

◦ Sideways (Pawns can move sideways) Fun fact: you can promote a pawn that started on the promotion rank by moving it sideways

◦ Torpedo (Pawns can always move 2 squares forward)

◦ Allow Passing (You can pass instead of making a move)

◦ Fatal Capture (Pieces die when they capture. Except pawns). Special treatment when combined with atomic: exploded pieces die, rather than disappear.
When combined with Stonewall, the name will change to "Petrified" (pieces turn to stone when they capture).

◦ Racing Kings (Checks are forbidden. Get your king to the 'far end' to win). For example: https://www.chess.com/variants-test/custom/game/20011845/0/1

◦ Bare Piece Rule (You are forfeited if you only have 1 piece)

Antichess renamed to Giveaway
Deadwall renamed to Stonewall
Elephant renamed to Chancellor
Hawk renamed to Archbishop

Comfuter renamed to Futer

Takeback support (casual games only)

Resign anytime (currently you can only resign on your turn).

Draw offers (or “Deal” offer, for FFA/points based games. If accepted by all players, each player gets +10, similar to insufficient material or 3 fold repetition)

30 sec + 0 will be hyper (currently bullet)

2 new pieces: the xiangqi horse (not jumping over pieces) and the dragon bishop (combines bishop and xiangqi horse)
New piece designs for Ferz, Camel, Camel-rider and Wildebeest
Alternative piece look: rooks can be changed to look like a chariot or a sailboat, alfils can be changed to look like an elephant



New separate piece “transparent brick” (in addition to the normal brick)

Pawns can promote to bricks or transparent bricks

Color settings: there are 2 separate color schemes, 4PC and White/Black. Each can be fully customized (player/piece colors, square colors, last move highlight colors, wall colors, premove colors.)

Royal Pieces can be set by using a button and then clicking on the desired piece (instead of needing to type in the coordinates). New indicator for royal pieces.

Board dimension can be set to anything from 2x2 to 14x14. (Full 14x14 without the 4PC ‘corners’ is now possible).

Custom castling definitions are possible (but must be specified by hand in the FEN4. See gothic chess for an example: https://www.chess.com/variants-test/gothic-chess/analysis.

Option to “follow” a player, via player popup. You will be directed to the new game
www.chess.com/variants/follow/Hikaru

More options for zombie types. Playerbox labels for zombies:

.. plus what I forgot to mention. let me know..

New tournament options:
Loss limit (todo: explain)

Missing/Todo:
The leaderboard ranks are not shown in the player popup.
Filters/sorting for ratings in player popup.

reserved.

Thread open. Please discuss starting position here, and FFA/Solo morphing here.

The players will see all 4PC and 4PC variants in the current version but how will players know that I want to play this variant and that ?????? Very bad ???!!!!

Wish it was 'is moving' instead tbh

and no exact date

I'm not sure I understand exactly, but these changes are going to be implemented after 4PC migrates and merges with the already-existing variants server. There will be no "4PC and 4PC variants."

Likewise, all of the 4PC (and 3PC) custom positions/variations will be moved with the rest of 4PC. You will still be able to start and join queues for whichever custom positions are listed.

grable wrote:

I'm not sure I understand exactly, but these changes are going to be implemented after 4PC migrates and merges with the already-existing variants server. There will be no "4PC and 4PC variants."

Likewise, all of the 4PC (and 3PC) custom positions/variations will be moved with the rest of 4PC. You will still be able to start and join queues for whichever custom positions are listed.

The edited positions will be shown in the 4 player chess option where the normal ffa and team games are shown. Variant 4PCs and 3PCs like Guardians of the hill, Amazon Jungle Fight, Triad, Behind the Mirror II, Fairy chess, Hailstorm, Hnefatafl, Mini forest, The X of Tricks, Thermopylae, Upside Down, Villagers Chess, Villagers Chess II, 3 Player, Red Valley, Arena Of Heroes, Arena of Legends, Battle of the Castles, Battle of twins, Behind the scenes, BlindGold, Double flower, Fiend of Archers, Foursquare, Gustav's Box, Island Hoppers, Max's game, Octagon, Surprise attack, Tic Tac Toe, The Colloseum, Typhoon and War for throne chronicles. Suppose there are two players playing. Just suppose. If I want to play one of these games and the other player want to play one of the other games then the player will not find an opponent to play with. I will not find an opponent to play with. That is the Problem.

How is that different to what is currently offered?

The Play tab is called Lobby in variants and you can see and search all open challenges.

Will the Solo rating be compared with FFA Rapid or FFA Blitz?

"The new system will "morph" from the current FFA system to the current Solo system, as the average rating increases. This means that when the average rating is closer to 1500, players finishing in 2nd place will typically gain rating, and in higher-rated games, the distinction between 2nd, 3rd, and 4th will be less consequential."

That is VERY GOOD.

What will be the average rating from which it will be more or less (or "almost") like the current Solo?

The graph is very clear but the figures aren't legible
(Comment edited by admin to correct for rule-breaking consecutive replies.)

That will be set differently by the admins for each gamemode. Currently, the plan is as follows for standard games: The "morph," will happen gradually in the 1500-2500 range, with games where the average rating is 1500 being "pure FFA", and 2500+ being "pure solo."

Although, I imagine that determination may be changed periodically as the rating distribution with all players inflates/deflates.

A full detailed rundown on all the specifics is forthcoming, and will be published at some point closer to the actual changeover.

That's what I wanted to know; thank you Grable. In fact 2500 currently is quite logical for the threshold (in Standard FFA). Nice.

both  FFA blitz and rapid ratings will get changed to your solo "blitz+rapid" rating if it's higher.
(can you even find such a player?!  i think there are very very few.)

>The graph is very clear but the figures aren't legible 
updated the graph

Precisely, there are some players like that , me for instance. 1986 in Solo blitz+rapid and 1859 in FFA blitz. Hence my question that was not theoretical

Found some more:

@Olimpo_IA: 2002 solo standard, 1954 ffa standard rapid, 1677 ffa standard blitz
@skhandelwal: 2015 solo standard, 1724 ffa standard rapid, 1746 ffa standard blitz
@LaMikk: 2033 solo standard, 2002 ffa standard rapid, 2002 ffa standard blitz
@CobraTref: 2038 solo standard, 1799 ffa standard rapid, 1799 ffa standard blitz
@rgnelms: 2165 solo standard, 2072 ffa standard rapid, 2119 ffa standard blitz
@vio44: 2216 solo standard, 1792 ffa standard rapid, 1792 ffa standard blitz
@KhazeKamal: 2241 solo standard, 1927 ffa standard rapid, 1915 ffa standard blitz
@icystun: 2375 solo standard, 2003 ffa standard rapid, 2003 ffa standard blitz
@lagodiComo: 2223 solo standard, 2160 ffa standard rapid, 2080 ffa standard blitz

I personally find that it doesn't really make sense to use the FFA rating predominantly. To get 1900/2000 in Solo is far more complicated an it's not very moral to use the highly inflated FFA ratings instead. Just IMHO.

(How it SHOULD be done? Well, several methods exist.I would've suggested that for all players who have more than 20 Solo games (and same for Solo bullet) their united Individual rating be: Highest (Solo Rating / Max Solo Rating ; FFA Rating / Max FFA Rating) * Max FFA Rating. THAT would be fair).

noo, you dont understand, If I want to play a game which no other is playing, I cant even play that game with randobot in the new version. Then? I have to play a game which others are playing. Although I dont like the game others are playing??

Randobots will be carried over to /variants.

Anyways who plays with randobots tbh