Variants Q&A

This version does not seem to work properly with mobile. The touch screen does not work properly and some moves are not possible to make. Has anyone else tried it on mobile?

The point of what

As @LosChess mentioned above, It incorporates important material, which shows everything we have been talking about in these 2 years.

Of all the possible versions for 4pc, the best options were selected, which were RY, BY, BYG and another one that I don't remember, we carried out several tests with the CGA team and we gave our opinion on each of them, after that, @Bsrti I publish in the forums, quite extensive and well-argued analyses, which explain the virtues of each setup. Which resulted in BY and BYG being the best versions for 4pc, especially FFA.
 I would like to add an archive, which also explains in greater detail everything we have done in the administration, since we started this.
This is one of the main blogs that explain why BY should be considered the main setup.
⚔️ BY Setup 🛡️ Why we should all play in this new Setup?
https://www.chess.com/blog/martinaxo/by-setup-why-we-should-all-play-in-this-new-setup

As @chacha says

Seriously, if it is really necessary to do more tests, to confirm and/or corroborate this, there are no problems, let's do it.

There's a lot of detailed, nuanced discussion happening and we appreciate it. People have also sent separate messages and it's quite a lot to take in! We have a meeting setup later this week to hash out the outstanding questions. Thanks!

I am searching for a way to review SpellChess games with my opponent. It seems we no longer share the board once it has ended. Somehow, someway, I reviewed a game once with my opponent, but we had to remember the moves. Not sure how we did that.

There isn't a way to do this even on the main server without using chess.com classrooms; as for reviewing games, you can just link moves (e.g., by typing move24 in chat)

a) YES, ChaCha is fully right, and already 2 years ago I suggested we launch a clear and serious test (like: every week ONE set-up is played by those who want to take part in the experience, with only 2200+ players having access to these games, to make the test relevant), then we look into the stats as about the balance between the colours,

b) I remind that in order to solve the issue once for all, I suggested that the set-up be defined by the server when the game is launched (between 16 possibilities, randomly). Why I believe it's a good solution?

- I do not think an ideal set-up exists,

- for 95% of the players the overall issue is irrelevant as they are under 2200 and have no clue about high level FFA and solo games,

- the set-up is in fact important only for the first 6-8 moves, afterwards it's abs. the same, so we shouldn't focus on something which is in my mind a false issue,

- I am sure that the possibility of launching games with any particular set-up chosen is confusing for many and creates ghettos (like "Old Set-up" and BY currently) rather than having a united FFA community.

The main issue with the OS was its lack of fairness. The main issue with the current setup is the sad lack of possible openings, we're clearly pushed into doing some particular moves, otherwise we're dead (provided the sides know how to play, so let's say are 2500+). It is not normal. Due to that, I still prefer an opening which is less fair like the OS. The main issue with BY and BYG is their lack of "logic" (I mean, it is not symmetric). Awkward.

That's why the good solution could be Random-16.

Los is 100% right here.

If we want any thing to develop, it can't be managed ignoring the needs and thoughts of the active members; it''s an axiom guys. Over YEARS literally we were speaking here on the forum, confronting our views and suggesting things. And the way the Reform was managed 1.5 years ago was simply CATASTROPHICAL. (If it were done like that in the group I worked in some years ago as VP, believe me, I would've fired everybody afterwards).

If you want to do it the right way, a) ask questions to the relevant people (i.e. who are at least in the world top 100 and who play actively), b) listen to them, c) validate your choices with them, d) first think and analyse, then implement. Until now, that's hasn't been the case clearly.

Perfect @goondrious 

What we really want to understand is the main and well-argued reason for maintaining the initial king position, which is currently used.

Many of the players who are Four Player Chess content creators lost a lot of interest in continuing to collaborate on that, many of the players who broadcast and who are from the Elite like 4pc expert also stopped doing so regularly.

Many of us feel dissatisfied with the current Setup, since we know and understand that it is not the best for the 4pc, it does not provide the necessary benefits to transform it into the official version, we have carried out many tests and we have the results of the engines, we have the polls, And yet there is a forced decision to maintain this current setup, and we simply want to know the main reason.
We have been told all the time that there is a real possibility to change it to the best version of 4pc, which is "BY Setup", they have always been open to that possibility since we discovered it. If everything is not written in stone, then let's take action soon, so that the next 4pc events in 2024, are under a definitive 4pc version, it will be 2 years since the changes, and we are still dissatisfied, since we need to perfect the 4pc, I hope this is the best time to do it.
With this we will achieve the reactivation of 4pc, in the medium term, and we will be able to enjoy the balance, the emotion, and the quality of the game, which are 3 fundamental aspects that are obtained from BY Setup.

please fix the catastrophic bug. if you have joined a game u cannot make a new game that is lower rated than that one. This means u are stuck in one queue and cannot add more and have to wait ages to play!

Thank you @martinaxo @LosChess appreciate the detailed input! I understand your take that BY is the better Starting Position based on a good amount of research that's been put into it. Trust me I would love for that to be the consensus, and we could just switch to BY and finally start stepping over these giant hurdles. Even though valuable time has been lost, these tests you've made and discussions that have happened need to be spread again, because maybe we will find only around 100 people who share the opinion of BY being superior to Old Standard and New Standard. I maintain that I'd like to look into it a bit more, but I'm with you let's do it.

I touched upon some inactivity in my previous comment but I didn't expect your reply. In my opinion all of us can be guilty of not having done enough specifically over the past year and half. Honestly maybe except you Martin, and Jonas. I follow all the discussions from the backend, and there's a lot being done that isn't seen. If I'm not writing a couple of paragraphs and constantly reposting them in a slightly paraphrased manner, it doesn't mean that I'm not present. It's because my initial opinion has stayed the same regarding the Setups, that we should test more in order to reach an accurate conclusion before making another drastic change. You misunderstand me when I say the conversations have been forgotten. I'm referring to the general community. Indeed it's true that in the eyes of a lot of people, progress isn't being made, hence why we need to revisit the discussions, continue being transparent and together try to understand what direction we're going, because currently not much is clear. And by the way, Martin's Discord Server is a good place to catch up on some things and quickly find links to forum posts about setups, rating systems and so on  

This makes me think and disagree with some of you when you say:

- That we are going to lose the player base again.
- That we are not ready for another Setup change.
- That 4pc will not be what it was before, etc.

^ I don't know if this is about me still, because I was saying the exact opposite things the other week on discord. I believe we're on the same page

Perfect @Cha_ChaRealSmooth,
The main thing is that we can organize an event, where players can carry out the relevant tests of this BY Setup format, and in this way they will be able to verify and learn about the enormous differences that exist between one and the other.

- This year USD 2000 was invested in the current format "Omatamix", in 2 competitions.

- USD 1000 in old standard

- and soon USD 1000 more for current format "Omatamix", again.

Those who have participated the most in these events are mostly experienced players and the elite who are expert 4pc players, as for new players, very few.

The finalists and champions have been well-known players on the circuit for years.

Therefore, I feel that we can give the BY Setup format a chance, make itself known, and give everyone a better gaming experience.

What if they ran 2 Month long BY Arenas with several membership prizes in place? 1 FFA and 1 for Teams, so Teams players can test the BY setup.

Top 3 finishers get Diamond, Platinum, Gold. Raffle additional memberships to participants who play in the Arena AND provide feedback answering 2 main questions:

Which setup do you prefer for FFA?

Which setup do you prefer for Teams?

Based on this feedback, keep the current setup in place, or make a change to what the community prefers.

@LosChess 
I think it's excellent, we could start it throughout January and February, I will publish your proposal for this on Discord.

To start, we’d like to acknowledge the mistakes we’ve made over the last couple of years:

• “The Merge”, the 4PC setup change and the FFA rating change were all done too quickly and they were done at the same time, which clearly just compounded all of their individual impacts.
• The technical transition during this time resulted in a ton of separate issues that all ended up on the screens of users as prolonged downtime, constant disconnects, erratic turn timers and missing games. We didn’t have the monitoring setup to properly detect such things proactively and took too long to address them.
• Overall, the communication throughout was poor.
• There was a similar rough patch in late August and early September of this year when some major changes were done for the server and Spell Chess. Along with a lot of downtime right after the changes, there were some persistent bugs, such as the “disconnect/clock bug” that have continued to be a pain. We are actively working to address them all.

All this to say, we are truly sorry for the experience and understand the frustrations. We admit that we screwed up with communications and actions around the merge, but also want to look to the future as much as possible.

Variants is all about fun and finding something that fits you. We tend to add fun variants, and also give the community the opportunity to create their own, all the while trying to gauge what’s popular and what has momentum. Within this glorious chaos, we realize that a community has formed around New Standard, so we don’t believe going back is the right path forward. We want to respect that, and we’ll therefore make the selection of 4PC format more intuitive and open:

• We’re rebranding “Old Standard” as “4 Player Classic”
• We’re updating the format/setting selection in 4PC to give Classic more visibility
• We're removing "4PC Max" from the popular tab

We believe that these two steps are the beginning of equalizing 4PC setups while we do the due-diligence required to pick a standard (if possible).

To address this path forward we’re organizing a series of tournaments* that will be all about the variety of formats within 4PC. We’ll gather feedback and stats on the starting positions to get a better picture.

• *early 2024 is the goal here!
• we acknowledge the concern about confusing players further with multiple options, but feel that it’s a solid olive branch for the community of Old Standard players. The thinking is that the following tournaments will more than make up for any fracturing of the player base and to this end we’ll be pulling & releasing weekly game stats for 4PC. This should allow us to properly monitor the situation to be flexible and proactive.

We want to support the growth & stability of Variants, both application and community. Much of the future is uncertain, but is going to spring from this solid foundation. We want to continue to run big events like Spell Chess and ongoing activities like the Variants Community Series. There will be more to come on the specifics of streamers, leagues and player retention (always a broad effort on ChessCom).

With the coming new year, we’re looking for a fresh start oriented around the VCS, the 4PC changes and arenas to further discuss the various setups.

We will continue to gather feedback and tinker where the community deems it necessary, so please continue to share your thoughts.

I think the damage has already been done with the leaving of many veteran players.

The acknowledgment is way too late!

Make Berolina chess and Cylider chess, Pre-chess,960-4PC;Pre-4PC.

Hi,
I love playing Shatranj. You have it here but it is called Chaturanga, which is a different game (e.g. non-symmetric positioning of Kings, different Elephant moves, different bare King rule). Please rename your Chaturanga to Shatranj!